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CDC Recommends Everyone To Mask Up, Governor Ron DeSantis Bans Mask Mandates In Schools; Eviction Ban Expires, Leaving Renters At Risk; Louisiana COVID Patients Regrets Not Being Vaccinated; Rep. Kevin McCarthy Slammed About A Joke He Made About Speaker Pelosi; U.S. Senate Finishing Up On Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill; Wall Street Concerned About July Jobs Report; Simone Biles Suffering From Twisties. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 1, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jim Acosta. It's been a wild week of rising COVID numbers and changing guidance, but if nothing else sticks with you, know this. COVID-19 vaccines are preventing hospitalizations. They are preventing deaths for more than 99.99 percent of people who have gotten the shots, according to CDC data. In other words, the vaccines work incredibly well.

And there's this. Yesterday, more than 816,000 COVID vaccine doses were administered. This is the fifth straight day recording more than 700,000 shots in arms. It's a hugely encouraging sign. But still, just over half the U.S. population is not fully vaccinated and, thus, not fully protected against the virus.

And one former health official warns, those who aren't vaccinated or who haven't already had COVID will almost certainly get it now. The delta variant is that transmissible. Now, even though prevention measures and new mask mandates seem to be popping up across the U.S. with New York City set to consider new mask guidance tomorrow, at least one COVID hot spot is doing just the opposite.

In Florida, coronavirus cases are absolutely surging. The state accounts for nearly 1 in 5 new cases in the U.S. And yet, Florida's governor, Ron DeSantis, is flying in the face of CDC recommendations on masking in schools, issuing an executive order to prevent school mask mandates.

Now, CNN's Randi Kaye joins me from Riviera Beach, Florida. And Randi, I know you've been all over the dynamics here for the better part of the last 15 months. Talk to us about the rising numbers, but also the latest order from DeSantis and what it all means.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, Phil, the numbers, and they are pretty staggering. In the last week, we have seen more than 110,000 cases here in the state of Florida of COVID. And also the daily average now is 15,818. So that's what we're seeing on a daily basis.

And just yesterday, here we are, this deep into the pandemic. Just yesterday we set a record. The most cases in a single day here in the state of Florida, 21,683. Now if you look at how Florida's contributing to the cases around the country, 19.2 percent of all new COVID cases around the country are right here in the state of Florida.

We are seeing numbers that we saw on average back in mid-January when it was really bad here in the state. And also Florida is not yet 50 percent vaccinated. Half the population isn't even vaccinated here, fully vaccinated at least -- 49 percent of Floridians are vaccinated. And those are the people -- the people who are unvaccinated are those who are ending up in the hospitals.

I was at a Jacksonville hospital recently at Baptist Medical Center where 99 percent of their patients are unvaccinated. And I spoke to some of the patients who were on breathing machines in the COVID ward and this is what one of them told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCISCA: I feel bad.

KAYE: Bad?

FRANCISCA: Yes, I cannot breathe good. I have shortness of breath. I feel sorry about not getting a vaccine.

KAYE: You're sorry you didn't -- you're sorry you didn't get the vaccine. Do you think you would be here if you had gotten the vaccine?

FRANCISCA: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: We're seeing a lot of regret among those unvaccinated patients. That woman actually told me her whole family was unvaccinated and they all got COVID. They now plan to get the vaccine, but there's a lot of concern, too, as schools start to reopen and kids return to the classrooms.

Here, 10,585 new cases on average for children under 12. They're not yet eligible for the vaccine around the country, but they are certainly seeing a spike here. The positivity rate for children in that age group, 18.1 percent. The state positivity rate is 18.2 percent. And you mentioned our governor here, Governor Ron DeSantis. He has issued an executive order saying that you cannot mandate mask wearing for children when they return to school.

He says that this is something that protects parents' freedom. He wants parents to have the choice and he said that anyone, any school district who might defy that order risks losing funding and risks getting -- becoming ineligible for grants as well. So, he feels very strongly about keeping the state open. No restrictions and no mask mandates despite the surging numbers, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Randi Kaye, the mask wars. We thought they were done. They are apparently back. Thanks so much for your reporting.

With me now is Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He's a CNN medical analyst, professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University. Dr. Reiner, you've always been helpful to me when I've had a lot of questions over the last couple of months. We've got it seems like even more now.

[17:04:58]

And I kind of want to start with probably the most important element here. Which is, if vaccine hesitancy does not improve or vaccine opposition, is the situation that we're seeing in Florida right now a precursor of what we could see play out nationwide in the next few months?

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, Phil, it will play out throughout all the states with similar vaccine resistance. You know, there is a little bit of good news in that our vaccine rates seem to be on the rise. For the last five days, the United States has averaged more than 700,000 shots. For the last four days we're averaging more than 400,000 new people coming in for first-time shots.

So, I think that's an acknowledgment that maybe some of the message is starting to get down to the grass roots. Maybe people are starting to see folks in their community get sick and see hospitals fill. So, whatever the reason for the uptick in vaccinations, it's a hopeful sign.

MATTINGLY: Now, this morning, Dr. Reiner, Dr. Anthony Fauci was pressed on the prospect of more national lockdowns. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't think we're going to see lockdowns. I think we have enough of the percentage of people in the country. Not enough to crush the outbreak, but I believe enough to not allow us to get into the situation we were in last winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: You know, in covering the White House, it's what we've been trying to figure out offer the course of the last couple of days, right? Like what happens next? What are the potential next steps if this continues to get worse? Do you agree with Dr. Fauci's assessment based on kind of writ-large in the nation in terms of lockdowns?

REINER: Right. So the problem is that the nation is bifurcated. So there are 22 states which have less than 11,000 new cases per 100,000 population, 16 states have more than 25,000 -- excuse me, more than 25 new cases per 100,000.

So there are, you know, half this country is in trouble. Half this country is sort of holding its own. What I'd like to see is local leaders, governors willing to make the hard call. And when places like Florida and Louisiana and Alabama and Missouri are literally out of control, I'd like to see local leaders do the right thing.

And in some places you may need to close down bars and restaurants and get control of this. It's going to be hard to open schools in parts of the country particularly if you have places that are refusing to allow mask mandates like Florida when the virus is surging.

Remember, all children under the age of 12 are unvaccinated right now. So it's going to be hard to understand how you send kids back to in- school learning when everyone is unvaccinated and only some kids are going to be wearing masks.

MATTINGLY: So, this is actually an interesting point. It kind of leads me to my next question. You saw in Randi's piece and we've been reporting. One in five cases reported in this country are in Florida alone. We've heard from Governor DeSantis. Here's how Republican congressman of Florida Matt Gaetz is approaching what they're seeing right now down in that state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZS (R-FL): I got the Florida variant. I've got the freedom variant. It affects the brain. It gets you to think for yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, look, preface with postscript I guess, it's Matt Gaetz. So, you know, take whatever you want from what he's saying. But I think the broader issue is that there has become a very real political element here and you're talking about schools are opening at the same time that CDC is pointing out now guidance, at the same time, the governors are making very clear they're opposed to it.

This feels like a toxic combination of things at the absolute worst moment. Is that kind of your read on things or how do you feel this plays out?

REINER: Yes. I mean, you know, we're politicizing a pandemic and our kids are at risk. So I would say, first off, let's not get our -- take our medical advice from Matt Gaetz. Our policies need to be motivated by protecting our kids. So if we have a state which has the second highest density of new infections in the country without any type of vaccine mandate, without any type of ability to use vaccine passports and with the governor saying he'll never shut down, you know, something has to give.

The virus doesn't care that this has been politicized. There's a lot -- there are many, many vulnerable people in Florida that will be infected, and I fear sending kids back to schools in that environment, our kids are going to really take the brunt of this. So we need to put politics aside and protect our children. I mean, isn't that something we can all agree on?

MATTINGLY: You would think, although based on the last 15 months, doctor, I'm not totally sure that's the case.

[17:10:01]

Obviously, a very fluid situation. You have constantly been one of those individuals who's been helping explain things when they're at their most confusing. Dr. Jonathan Reiner, as always, my friend. Thank you very much for your time, sir.

REINER: My pleasure.

MATTINGLY: All right. It's the first of the month and rent and back rent is due. The National Eviction Moratorium Officially expired at midnight last night and without that protection millions could be now -- could now be kicked out of their homes.

Now, lawmakers are playing a little bit of the blame game here. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is pointing the fingers at Republicans and also kind of pointing the finger at the White House. Republicans blocked the last-minute effort to extend those eviction protections. Members of her own party made clear Democrats also bear some of the responsibility. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): There were many and there was frankly a handful of conservative Democrats in the House that threatened to get on planes rather than hold this vote. And we have to really just call a spade a spade. We cannot in good faith blame the Republican Party when House Democrats have a majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: There's no shortage of political dynamics here, but I want to get to CNN's Camila Bernal who joins me now from Los Angeles who's with the most important element of this. Camila, you're talking to families who may soon lose their homes. What's their response to this current moment in time?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Phil, these families are just so worried. And it's because they don't know what's going to happen to them in the next couple of hours. They don't know where their children are going to be sleeping at night. And, of course, it is front and center for them.

And as you mentioned, it's not just rent. It's back rent and that's the biggest issue here. What it means is that people are either going to have to pay or they're going to be kicked out of their homes. According to the latest census data, about 7.4 million Americans are behind on rent. And that was as of July 5th.

So at the moment that number could be even higher. And it means that when someone owed $1,000, well, now it's 6,000, $7,000, $8,000 because of the back rent. And a lot of people just don't have that money at the moment. They do not have the cash.

Census data also showing that about 3.6 million people were very worried about a possible eviction. And these are people who are used to having this protection that is now coming to an end. And so they need to figure out their next steps. And that's the issue here.

We don't even know exactly how many people are going to be evicted in the next couple of days. And that's because a lot of the responsibility is now falling in the hands of the state, of a city, municipality, and many of them are extending it like it is the case here in California for the next couple of months. But in other states they're going to have to figure it out and people are terrified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN SKIRZYNSKI, FLORIDA TENANT, FEARING EVICTION: To figure out like where am I going to live in the next two months? And it's a shame because I know I'm not the only one that's struggling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And many of these people have nowhere to go. They have lost their jobs because of the pandemic and now you add the delta variant. So, the big question is, where are these people going to go? Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yes. And Camila, you made a great point there. Not only can states and localities impose their own moratoriums that they want to. There's also tens of billions of federal dollars those states and localities could disburse if they could figure out a way to do it. Camila, it's the people that matter the most here. Thank you so much. It was a great report.

All right, coming up, the urgent plea from people who put off getting the coronavirus vaccine only to end up in the hospital with the virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIMEE MATZEN, LOUISIANA COVID-19 PATIENT: The fact that I am here now, I am furious with myself.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Why?

MATZEN: Because I was not vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Plus, the Louisiana hospital that saw vaccine appointments fill up after offering to pay people a hundred bucks for the shot.

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[17:15:00]

MATTINGLY: There is nowhere safe. That's the warning tonight from a doctor at a Louisiana hospital currently admitting more coronavirus patients than during any point of the pandemic. Any point of the pandemic. And while many regret not getting the vaccine, others are still in denial they even have COVID. CNN's Miguel Marquez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ, voice-over): Amy Matson struggles to breath.

(On camera): What does it feel like to have COVID?

MATZEN: Exhausting, extremely frustrating, tiring, and the fact that I am here now, I am furious with myself.

MARQUEZ (on camera): Why?

MATZEN: Because I was not vaccinated.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Not anti-vaccine, she says she just didn't get around to it. The 44-year-old is now one of dozens of COVD-19 patients in Baton Rouge's Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center. Her oxygen low, her doctors says she might need a ventilator.

MATZEN: I just don't want anyone else winding up like me especially the vaccine is so easy to get now.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): The delta variant now prevalent in the bayou state. Not only is it enormously infectious --

CATHERINE O'NEAL, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, OUR LADY OF THE LAKES REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: The delta variant is far more contagious, right, but that viral load doesn't just mean that I'm going to spread it to more people. It also means that when I inhale somebody else's breath, I am getting a massive amount of virus.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): It is spreading everywhere, in cities and rural areas.

O'NEAL: There's nowhere safe. If you're interacting in this community, you should be vaccinated and you should have a mask on because we are inundated with COVID.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Ronnie Smith, 47, says he thinks he got it from a friend outdoors. Outdoors at a barbecue. He was planning to get the vaccine when COVID-19 got him.

UNKNOWN: 17:20:00]

RONNIE SMITH, LOUISIAN COVID-19 PATIENT: Two days after the event, it just like I had a -- I went down on the floor and I couldn't get up.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Nurses here say they've watched the number of critically ill patients grow rapidly. Some anti-vaccination patients still in denial COVID-19 is real.

MORGAN BABIN, NURSE, OUR LDAY OF THE LAKES REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: Some people insist that we're lying to them about their COVID positive diagnosis.

MARQUEZ (on camera): Even sick people?

BABIN: Even sick people.

MARQUEZ (on camera): Who need oxygen who might be on their way to death --

BABIN: Yes.

MARQUEZ (on camera): -- are still denying they have COVID?

BABIN: Yes. I have patients that deny that they had COVID all the way up until intubation.

MARQUEZ (on camera): What do they think they have?

BABIN: They think that they have a cold.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Carsyn Baker, only 21, has a kidney condition. Her doctor has advised against getting vaccinated for now. She thinks she picked up the coronavirus while in a screened-in porch across the room from someone else who had it.

MARQUEZ (on camera): What does that tell you about how easy it is to pick this variant up?

CARSYN BAKER, LOUISIANA COVID-19 PATIENT: Yes. It just kind of sucks because people like myself with an autoimmune disease, you can't really go anywhere now because just everybody is getting sick and it just doesn't matter what you do.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Laurie Douglas has been in nursing for 35 years. The last year, her hardest. Frustration with sickness, death and the unvaccinated at boiling point.

LAURIE DOUGLAS, NURSE, OUR LADY OF THE LAKES REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: Sometimes praying isn't enough and yell at Jesus if I need to. It is head shaking, teeth grinding, knees tight, standing up just wanting to scream from the hilltops. Frustrating.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Miguel Marquez, CNN, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Tough to watch pieces like that. Also in Louisiana, which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country, officials now pulling out all the stops to get people to just roll up their sleeves. One hospital saw appointments fill up after they used money that had been donated to offer people $100 just to get vaccinated.

Joining us now is Dr. Robert Peltier. He is the chief medical officer at North Oaks Health which offered this incentive in Louisiana. He's also an internal medicine physician and tropical medicine specialist. Doctor, I'm fascinated by this because we saw this idea kind of glommed on to by the president this past week saying he wants $100 per shot to be something states and localities do. Where did this come from and from your assessment, did it work?

ROBERT PELTIER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, NORTH OAKS HEALTH: Yes, we had a local businessman here, Mr. Tom Endman (ph), who approached our CEO, Michelle Sutton, just a couple of weeks ago and said, you know, he had seen the vaccination rates in our parish, which is terrible. We were just above 30 percent in our area and we were seeing rising cases, and he wanted to do something about it.

And he sort of had this brainchild with his son, co-owner of that business to say let's get us and our friends to donate some money. They came to the hospital and through our foundation, we were able to have 500 slots, $50,000 worth of donations that we put forward to a vaccine clinic which started yesterday and we were able to have 500 appointments quickly fill up.

And yesterday we had those 500 people come through and all get $50 when they come back to get their second dose of the -- we were using Pfizer vaccine today at the hospital. Three weeks when they come back, they'll get that second $50 incentive payment.

MATTINGLY: So, you know, look, at this point not even 40 percent of people in Louisiana are vaccinated. Is this the answer? I know it's tough. It's not a monolithic community of people who haven't gotten the vaccine at this point in time, but in your view, is it incentives? Is it mandates? Is it a combination of things? What have you seen on the ground?

PELTIER: Clearly incentives are not the only way that we're going to combat this. This takes the whole community. And that's what we saw here, was community coming up with every idea that they could possibly have to curtail the numbers that we're seeing here.

Our hospital has 18 people in the ICU today and 83 people that all have COVID in our facility. That's a significant portion of people that are here. Does it solve all the problems by giving some incentive payments? No. It's only 500 people.

I have a catchment basin of over 250,000 people that our hospital serves. So, clearly, you know, 500 people will make a very small dent in this. We still need people to do everything that they were doing before. Social distancing, masking, all of those things that we did to help with this current issue and then the vaccines need to get out.

We need to get more people with lots more information so they are making the appropriate choice which, you know, generally is being vaccinated.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you, you know, one of the things that I think has been most interesting over the course of the last couple of days has been hearing from patients who did not get the vaccine and are now dealing with delta, you know, also hearing from doctors and nurses who didn't think they'd be back here again 15 months later -- 10 months later.

[17:25:00]

What are your doctors and nurses, what are they saying? How are they feeling? What are they hearing from patients?

PELTIER: Well, first of all, our staff is tired. I have 2,400 of the best health care providers that I've ever met here and they are dedicated as can be. But to have another wave and to go back to the long hours, the inadequate staffing just because COVID patients take so many more resources.

Every COVID patient is like taking care of two or three other patients because of the demands and the needs, the respiratory therapists, you name it. It takes a lot of resources. So, you know, our staff is -- it was certainly, and maybe the best word is disappointed that we saw another purely preventable wave by both behavior and lack of vaccination in the area.

MATTINGLY: Yes, we're grateful for the work you guys do. I can't imagine how exhausted you guys are, but again, very grateful that you guys are there and working on this issue. Dr. Robert Peltier, really appreciate everything. Keep up the good work, sir. Thank you.

PELTIER: Thank you for having me.

MATTINGLY: All right, up next, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy joked, "it would be hard not to hit Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi with the gavel if he becomes speaker." I read that slowly because didn't really think it was real when I first read it, but that is indeed what he said. We'll play it so you can hear it for yourself, next. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:00]

MATTINGLY: Right now, the U.S. Senate is in session. That is a rarity on a Sunday, but senators are still hard at work to try and wrap up the agreement on President Joe Biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill. Democratic Senator Joe Manchin telling CNN the text of that legislation will be finalized in a matter of hours.

Like its Groundhog Day, we've heard that several times over the course of the last several weeks as CNN's Suzanne Malveaux knows very well. She joins me now from Capitol Hill. Suzanne, what are you hearing?

SUZANNE MALVEAUZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Phil, I was going to say it was one of those hurry up and wait days as you know very well of course. And yes, Senator Joe Manchin just telling our colleague Daniella Diaz at the elevator which is often where you get the information, is that perhaps it will be unfolded in a couple of hours here that it will happen tonight so we will keep waiting.

It's more than 2,000 pages. A $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package with more than half of it with new federal spending over the course of five years. And Phil, as you know, this is -- once this language, the official legislative language is introduced as a substitute amendment, it will become the base of the bill.

And at that point, it could happen tonight, but very likely tomorrow when senators will have an opportunity to offer their amendments. McConnell and Schumer will negotiate, decide which ones will actually get a vote. It will take 60 votes for any of those amendments to pass and then it's going to be hours and hours of debate that will play out in the days ahead. The goal is to try to get the Senate out by the end of the week. And

so we'll see if that passage happens. But it has to go then to the House and, as you know, this is tied to a similar track, a $3.5 trillion reconciliation package.

It is Democrats alone on the Senate and the House side that have to decide what kind of human infrastructure package that they will be able to push forward and be able to support with Democrats just by themselves, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Suzanne, savvy veterans of the Hill know, always take the over when it comes to when is legislative text going to be done? There is one other issue I wanted to ask you about because I saw this last night and kind of jaw dropped for a minute or at least thought I was misreading things. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy facing backlash for a joke he made about Speaker Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi last night. Tell us what that was.

MALVEAUX: Well, that was at a fundraiser. Tennessee delegation, Congressional delegation, and there was a comment about whether or not, you know, the House would again, the GOP take over the House after the 2022 midterms. And McCarthy had a little joke, a response when he was presented with an oversize gavel. And so, just take a listen. This is what he said.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I'll make one promise here. If we win the majority, which I know we're going to, you're all invited.

(APPLAUSE)

(Inaudible) I want you to watch Nancy Pelosi hand me that gavel.

(APPLAUSE)

It will be hard not to hit her with it, but I will bang it down (inaudible). Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Her spokesperson tweeting this immediately saying, "A threat of violence to someone who was a target of the January 6th assassination attempt from your fellow Trump supporters is irresponsible and disgusting." This is clearly a new low in their relationship, Phil.

MATTINGLY: No question about that. Staying classy as always, Leader McCarthy. Suzanne Malveaux with the latest on the Hill. Thank you so much.

All right, coming up, the last days of Osama Bin Laden. After a decade of searching, how laundry on a clothes line turned out to be the final clue to his whereabouts. The details from a great new book written by the first western journalist to interview Osama Bin Laden face-to- face.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

MATTINGLY: Did laundry help lead to the CIA mission that killed Osama Bin Laden? According to a new book, at least in part, yes. The U.S. was tracking a compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, but initially observed only the families of two bodyguards living there. The final clue was the hanging laundry outside the building.

That clue told U.S. officials that there were more people in that compound than just the bodyguard's families. This and so much more is all in a new book. "The Rise and Fall of Osama Bin Laden" written by CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen who joins me now.

Peter, just before we start, I want to remind our viewers how much of an expert you are on Osama Bin Laden. That's you next to Osama Bin Laden. You first spoke to him in 1997. It was his first interview with western media.

[17:40:00]

I've been poring over this the last 48 hours. I'm fascinated, one, by how crisp you wrote this, but also just how much I learned from it. But I want to start with the laundry. I feel like we all knew so much about what happened in the wake of it. Tell us more about why laundry was one of the primary clues that led to the mission.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Phil, thanks for having me on and reading the book. You know, when they looked at this compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, they knew there were two bodyguards and their families who were living there.

But when they got a safe house and was able to observe the compound more closely, they started counting clothes on clotheslines. And they saw that there seemed to be an entirely other family which consisted of three or four adults and nine children by their count who were basically keeping a very low profile.

So this added -- this was one more, I think, clue in the circumstantial case that Bin Laden was living there with his family. And certainly the CIA had long assessed that Bin Laden who was sort of a family man would not be traveling by himself.

You know, most fugitives don't take three wives, a dozen kids and grandkids along for the ride, but Bin Laden did. And that was part of the reason that he was actually tracked down.

MATTINGLY: You also wrote, I found this really interesting about how Bin Laden was looking for a new hiding place when the raid actually happened. Why?

BERGEN: You know, he had two bodyguards who basically did everything for him. They bought food for the family. They ran errands for Bin Laden. They took messages to leaders of Al Qaeda in other parts of Pakistan. And, you know, they were fed up. I mean, Bin Laden was kind of a miser. He was paying them $100 a month, which is not a huge amount of money to look after the world's most wanted man.

And they were fed up with the danger that came with the job. And they had good reason to be fearful because, you know, both of the bodyguards were killed on the night that Bin Laden was killed. So, they signed a kind of contract with Bin Laden in the final months of his life, essentially saying, you know, we're leaving and good luck.

The compound was actually in the name of one of the bodyguards. It was not registered to bin Laden so this really posed a big problem for him. Not only did he need to get new bodyguards, he needed to find a new hideout in the months before he was killed. So, he was quite anxious about the fact that his carefully constructed hideout was disappearing.

MATTINGLY: I think one of the most interesting things at least as it pertains to kind of now and reading through the book was the relationship that you kind of ferreted out and going through all these documents, all of these elements as it pertains to the Taliban and as it pertains to Al Qaeda's relationship with Iran. Can you walk me through kind of top line where you landed because there's been a lot of questions about both, even now this many years later?

BERGEN: Yes, well, of course, you know, the premise of the long- running Trump administration peace negotiations with the Taliban is that they would kind of essentially cut off ties with Al Qaeda. And I think the documents will be found in the Abbottabad compound show that, in fact, the Taliban and Al Qaeda maintained very cordial relationships.

Bin Laden was writing letters to leaders of the Taliban. He as actually sending them significant sums of money. They were cooperating on military operations. So that's the snapshot in 2011.

And then, you know, fast forward to today, the United Nations in June released a pretty detailed report saying that relations between the Al Qaeda and the Taliban remain, you know, "very close." So, you know, they didn't separate after 9/11. There was a lot of wishful thinking about that.

Unfortunately, you know, these chickens may come home to roost as we pull out of Afghanistan. It's clear the Taliban is not going to sort of get rid of Al Qaeda or indeed many of the other jihadi terrorist groups over in Afghanistan.

On the question of Iran, you know, many Al Qaeda -- a number of Al Qaeda leaders and also quite a number of Bin Laden's family members lived in Iran under house arrest. And there's always been -- for a decade after 9/11, there's always been the question what was really their relationship?

And I think the documents that were found in Abbottabad show that Bin Laden was extremely suspicious of the Iranians. He, in fact, had quite a lot of hostility to them. They treated his family members pretty badly at one point in 2010. Iranian Special Forces actually went into the kind of detention camp where his family members were being held and they kind of beat them up.

So, it's not, you know, kind of warm and fuzzy relationship. It was kind of a marriage of convenience. And at some point, the Iranians actually got rid of most of Bin Laden family members and some leaders of Al Qaeda because, you know, at a certain point they realized these were not going to be useful in some sort of deal with the United States and in 2010, most of these people were released although some stayed.

[17:44:56]

MATTINGLY: Yes. The financial help to the Taliban particularly based on a kidnapping was fascinating to me, but also, it's such a long- running debate mostly behind the scenes regarding Al Qaeda's relationship with Iran. This was a fascinating window into it and just one of the many fascinating windows in this book. It's a really great read.

Peter Bergen, thanks so much for your time. Be sure to check out Peter's new book, "The Rise and Fall of Osama Bin Laden." It comes out Tuesday. Don't wait. Go preorder it now. Trust me. It's worth your time.

Coming up, Simone Biles drops out of another Olympic event. Will she compete again before she heads home from Tokyo?

But first, Wall Street waiting for that July jobs report due out this week. CNN's Christine Romans has your "Before the Bell Report."

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Phil. You know, the delta variant probably hasn't hurt the job market, at least not yet. The government releases the July jobs report on Friday. And economists predict nearly a million jobs were added back. That's the most since august of 2020.

The unemployment rate likely fell to 5.7 percent. The job market is improving but companies are still struggling to hire workers. Last week, the Fed chief, Jerome Powell, addressed this mismatch between the unemployed and available jobs.

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JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: Maybe the place to start is just to say that this is now not so much about people going back to their old jobs. It's about finding a new job. So, that's a time intensive, labor intensive process. The bottom line on this is, people want to work.

If you look at where labor force participation can get, people will go back to work unless they retire. Some people will retire. But generally speaking, Americans want to work and they'll find their way into the jobs that they want. It may take some time, though.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Job market challenges a big reason the Fed isn't rushing to raise interest rates despite signs of inflation. Fed Chief Powell argues recent price spikes, they are temporary, and supply bottlenecks, they'll work themselves out.

For now, Wall Street seems to agree. All three major averages hit new highs in July. The Dow topped 35,000 for the first time in history. In New York, I'm Christine Romans.

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[17:50:00]

MATTINGLY: Gymnastics icon Simone Biles has one more chance to compete at Tokyo 2020 after pulling out of Monday's floor final. Biles revealed she is struggling with the twisties, a mental block that causes a gymnast to become disoriented midair. A terrifying one at that.

It has ignited a conversation around mental health in athletes. CNN's Will Ripley is live in Tokyo for us. Will, the last event final for balance beam is on Tuesday. Is there any chance Simone Biles competes in that?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That would be the final chance after withdrawing from the floor exercise, which is happening today. So, we'll find out in the coming hours. If things go as expected, it seems as if this will be an Olympics that Simone Biles, who came into it as the star, the face of the games, and is now leaving, you know, dealing with one of the most challenging events of her athletic career.

A disconnection between her body and her mind in a midair maneuver which could actually be very dangerous. But there were other examples of this as well. If you think about Djokovic, if you think about Naomi Osaka, all these kind of big-name people, even Team USA isn't doing as well in the gold medals as they'd like to be. China is actually leading the medal count right now.

MATTINGLY: Yes. I mean, this is sports of the absolute highest level. Now, Will, I woke up my entire family last night in the middle of the 1,500 men's freestyle. I know there has been a bunch of highlights that have been going on. Walk us through some of them.

RIPLEY: Well, I mean, it was incredible. And, you know, as the swimming races were wrapping up, Caeleb Dressel from Team USA, he really cleaned up with, you know, five gold medals all together. And that's what got the United States closer because the U.S. was actually in third place when it came to gold medals.

Katie Ledecky also goes home with four medals, two gold, two silver. And she told CNN that she can't wait to get home to her family. She's actually been away, Phil, for more than a year to focus on her training. Also, the men's 100 meter final, we were there. It was really extraordinary and it was a shock win for Italy. The U.S. took silver and Canada took bronze.

MATTINGLY: Yes, totally. And Katie Ledecky, a hometown hero for those of us in the DMV area. We will welcome her back soon. So this is actually one really interesting story that I want to get a read on. We're learning of a Belarusian sprinter who asked the IOC for help to prevent her from being returned to her home country against her will. What's going on here?

RIPLEY: There are two schools of thought about what is happening with Krystsina Tsimanouskaya. This is the Belarusian sprinter, who she was basically reassigned at the last minute from the 200 meter to the 4 x 4 100 meter relay that she hadn't been practicing for. And apparently, she threw quite a fit to such an extent that the Belarusian National Olympic Committee told her to pack her bags and go home and get out and they withdrew her applications for competing.

They say it was strictly because of her psychological and emotional kind of breakdown as a result of those changes. But she says that in fact, she was being basically forced back to a country where it's going to be dangerous for her because she was speaking out against the government, because the government does control the Olympic committee. If we have time, we can roll that sound from her quickly.

[17:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRYSTSINA TSIMANOUSKAYA, BELARUSIAN OLYMPIC SPRINTER(through translation): I asked the International Olympic Committee for help. I was put under pressure and they are trying to forcibly take me out of the country without my consent. I asked the International Olympic Committee to intervene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: So, it was a very dramatic scene at the Haneda Airport police station. They actually were escorting her onto her flight. She went to the police station. She is seeking asylum and it is just developing still as we speak, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Keep us posted on that. Will Ripley, a man who would never be tired by the 1,500 meter at swimming. Thanks so much my friend. I appreciate it.

And a quick programming note, be sure to tune in tonight at 10:00 for an all-new episode of the CNN Original Series "Jerusalem."

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[17:59:59]