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CNN NEWSROOM

Italy Approves "Green Pass" To Force Unvaccinated To Stay Home; Mass Isolation Due To COVID Threatens U.K.'s Food Supply; Delta Variant Causes Explosion Of Cases Throughout Asia; Mask Mandates Back On The Table As COVID Cases Surge; More Counties Declare Emergency As Fires Rage In The West; Interview With Rep. Charlie Crist (D-FL); Tucker Carlson Leads Chorus Of Vaccine Critics On FOX News; Schools Struggle To Fill Job Openings. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 24, 2021 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[19:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Absolutely the wrong equation. Not where we want to be in as the coronavirus Delta variant sweeps the country particularly among the unvaccinated. Important to emphasize that. As of today, just 49 percent of the U.S. population is fully vaccinated. 30 states have yet to vaccinate even half their residents. Alabama and Mississippi are the lowest of the low. They haven't even cracked 35 percent fully vaccinated.

When CNN's Gary Tuchman asked people in Alabama why they're not getting the shot, this is the kind of response he found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don't think that I need it so I'm not going to get it.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But do you know, though, that almost everyone now who is dying or being hospitalized is somebody who hasn't been vaccinated? The people who have been vaccinated, almost all of them are not going to the hospital and not dying. Does that concern you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not really. I'm a healthy person. I don't have any underlying health issues. I'm not really concerned about it.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: According to data from Johns Hopkins, every state in the nation reported more new cases in the week ending Friday than they did the week before.

But the U.S. isn't alone in losing ground against the Delta variant. Today in Paris anger and frustration as tens of thousands of people protested mandatory vaccinations for some and a nationwide health pass requirement to get into movie theaters and museums.

Similar requirements are coming to other countries as well. CNN correspondents are watching from all over the world. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbie Nadeau in Rome and here in Italy the government has approved a green pass that will reward the vaccinated and hopefully inspire the hesitant to finally get inoculated.

(Voice-over): Cases have been steadily rising in this country due to the opening of tourism, the European soccer celebrations and the Delta variant. But to avoid further lockdowns, the green pass should allow the economy to stay open and keep the virus in check by forcing the unvaccinated to either stay home or finally get their shots.

From early August, the fully vaccinated are those who have a negative test or have recovered from COVID will be able to dine inside restaurants, go to gyms, night clubs, sporting events and concerts or anywhere people gather indoors.

(On-camera): The message the government is trying to send is clear, that vaccinations are the only way out of the pandemic.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in London where in just a single week 1 percent of the population of England and Wales was told by the government's contact tracing app to self-isolate.

(Voice-over): That's well over 600,000 people. Mass isolation has led to staff shortages in some industries and bare shelves in some grocery stores. While the shelves are still well stocked in most parts of the country, the threat of disruption to the food supply was enough for the government to allow people working in hundreds of grocery store depots, meat packing plants and bread and dairy facilities to be exempt from quarantine.

The U.K. has the highest daily confirmed case count on earth as the Delta variant rips through younger, unvaccinated parts of the population. New data shows the vast majority of people ending up in hospital are under 50, and well over 90 percent of them are either not fully vaccinated or not vaccinated at all.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am Anna Coren in Hong Kong. An explosion of COVID-19 cases across Asia has governments scrambling as they desperately try to stop the spread of the highly contagious Delta variant.

(Voice-over): Indonesia has become the epicenter of the pandemic in Asia, reporting the highest death toll for three consecutive days, exceeding 1500 deaths a day. As the fourth most populous nation, it's a developing country with a high poverty rate, making it the perfect breeding ground for the virus. The Health Ministry says there have been more than a million cases over the past month, and just over 6 percent of the population has been fully vaccinated.

(On-camera): Well, meantime, record cases are being reported in Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore and South Korea with governments there imposing restrictions. (Voice-over): While in Australia, thousands of people have taken part

in anti-lockdown protests, dozens have been arrested as the Delta variant there takes hold.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thanks all for our reporters around the world. And joining me now with more is CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen, former commissioner of health in Baltimore and author of the upcoming book "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health."

Doctor Wen, thank you so much for joining us. So let's just jump into it. We continue to hear this is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated, but really there's no way to distinguish between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Los Angeles County is now requiring masks indoors. Should the CDC call for that again on a national level?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. And in fact, the CDC should be first saying that they made a mistake two months ago when they essentially ended indoor mask mandates because exactly as you said there was no proof of vaccination required. And what that meant was the unvaccinated started behaving as if they were vaccinated, and therefore we have this massive surge that we're seeing.

[19:05:03]

The Biden administration really needs to look at the realities on the ground and see that we have a situation where the Delta variant that is now dominant in the country. The Delta variant results in a person who is infected having 1,000 times the viral load compared to previous variants. And we don't actually know if somebody who is fully vaccinated but have a breakthrough infection with the Delta variant, are they able to transmit it to others? Would that be kind of lack of knowledge?

BROWN: Right. Because the CDC doesn't track these breakthrough cases, right?

WEN: That's exactly right. We really don't know how many mild breakthrough infections there are, and that's really important to give people the expectation. I mean, are we talking about 1 in 100 or 1 in 2? We don't know what is happening here. And we also really don't know, for those of us who are parents of unvaccinated children, what if we are asymptomatic and we are protected ourselves, but are we able to transmit it to our unvaccinated children?

BROWN: Yes. I mean we're both moms with young kids who can't get vaccinated. That's one of my big questions, you know. So -- but there's really no updated guidance from the CDC on this, even despite this pandemic has changed course since that initial guidance was put out, which you think was premature anyway.

So I want to go to some of our viewer questions because we've had really a flood which is so fascinating this far in the pandemic. You know, so many people have so many questions still, right? So one question from our viewer is, has anything changed for the vaccinated in terms of safety?

WEN: Yes, it's a really good question. Actually, we now have so much information now, now that hundreds of millions of people around the world have become vaccinated. We now have even more information about how safe these vaccines are. One thing that many people have been wondering about is, well, what about long-term side effects? Well, remember that people started getting the vaccines in December.

We now know that whatever side effects people may experience are in the initial days to weeks. We're not seeing side effects months after the vaccine, and that should be really reassuring to people about the safety and also about the effectiveness of the vaccines.

BROWN: But I think, just to follow up on that, there is the safety of the vaccine but also the safety if you're vaccinated and you're going out. I think there was this feeling early on, especially when the CDC put that guidance out, hey, you don't have to wear masks indoors if you're vaccinated, hey, I'm safe, we're good to go, even though you knew there was still a level of risk.

What is the safety concern now, though, facing vaccinated people given the large number of unvaccinated people in this country and given the Delta variant spreading?

WEN: Here is what we know about the -- how well the vaccines protect you. We know that the vaccines that we have protect you very well from getting severely ill. So chances are you're not going to end up being hospitalized or dying if you get the coronavirus vaccine, which is really incredible. That's the reason we wanted these vaccines in the first place. But we don't know how well the vaccines protect you from getting asymptomatically ill or transmitting it to others.

And one of the reasons this is particularly concerning is right now with the Delta variant the studies the CDC are relying on are pre- Delta. And so that's why many of us think that the CDC should be at least issuing an indoor mask wearing advisory, even if it's not a mandate, at least an advisory, because frankly that's what so many of us doctors and public health officials are doing, especially in areas where there are a lot of other people around us with coronavirus.

The actions of the unvaccinated also affect the vaccinated, too. Because if you're surrounded by all these people who are infected, chances are much higher that you might get infected yourself even if you're vaccinated.

BROWN: Yes, and of course back to school is starting soon. So many parents have questions for their kids. Another question from a viewer is, what would you do if your kids have preexisting conditions, not eligible for vaccines, and their school system is leaving masking to parent preference? Would you send them back to school and take the risk or choose an online option like K-12 until they are vaccinated?

WEN: This is really tough. I mean certainly if schools have not yet made that decision, I really hope that the school will say that masks are required in indoor settings. If they've already said that it's not required, I would do two things. One is look at what is going on in your community. If it's a community

with very high vaccination rates and very low infection rates, I would probably take the chance and send my child to school. I would still make sure that my child wears a mask in indoor settings because the mask -- wearing a mask also protects the wearer as well.

If though your community is one that has a high level of transmission and not very much vaccination, you could try to talk to the other parents in the class. Try to talk to the teachers even. Perhaps for that class the parents can try to do their best and voluntarily ask their kids to mask up. That's something that we can try to do, although I certainly sympathize and understand that this would be a decision that many parents unfortunately are facing because their school administrators or politicians in their areas are not valuing kids' well-being.

BROWN: What do parents of those under 2 do, asks another viewer, not old enough for masks or vaccines but parents have to work and can't keep them home isolated indefinitely? It is an impossible situation.

[19:10:10]

WEN: I agree. I have a 15-month-old and certainly in that position, too, where my almost 4-year-old son is great at masking but the 15- month-old can't wear a mask.

I would say in this case it's really important for the family around that child to be vaccinated as much as possible, and to try to be in outdoor settings. That's certainly going to be indoors, but we also know that daycares can be safe. Many daycares have avoided outbreak it all together. So if you're thinking about daycare, child care options, look to see what safety protocols they have in place. Make sure that they are at least up to the CDC guidelines.

BROWN: So many more questions for you, Dr. Leana Wen, but we're going to wrap it up there. Thanks so much.

WEN: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up this hour the NSA says it found zero evidence supporting Tucker Carlson's rant about being spied on by the government saying he wasn't being targeted.

And then the school district struggling with teacher shortages, made even worse by the pandemic. Some are having to bring in applicants from abroad.

But first, the skies over Oregon filled with smoke and ash from a monster fire that's already scorched more than 400,000 acres. The latest on the fight to bring the blaze under control when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:26] BROWN: Tonight, an explosion of wildfires in the West. More than 80 are burning throughout the country. Six new large fires reported just today. Oregon's Bootleg Fire is the largest, scorching more than 400,000 acres. It has become so massive that it's creating its own weather. You heard that right.

And in Nevada, the Tamarac Fire has ignited into an out-of-control inferno. Lucy Kafanov is tracking it in Nevada.

Lucy, are firefighters getting any closer to getting a handle on this thing?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pam, far from it. We were on the air a couple of hours ago and at that point the Tamarac Fire had charred more than 59,000 acres. Since then it has exploded to more than 65,000 acres. People evacuated, fire crews still battling this blaze. And you can see the impact all around me.

Take a look from above. You're supposed to be seeing the city of Reno. You're supposed to be seeing mountains in the distance. Instead, the entire air here blanketed in heavy fog and haze and smoke. The air quality impacted not just from the Tamarac Fire but the Dixie Fire as well, not to mention the fires raging across the state of Oregon -- Pam.

BROWN: And we're also hearing that the largest of all of these fires, the Bootleg Fire, is still growing. It's now scorched more than 400,000 acres. You were just embedded with the crews fighting that fire. What did you see?

KAFANOV: Pam, it was really interesting to watch them work. We were on the front lines with the crews operating in that fire area. They have to do a lot to try to contain it because it's just simply too big to put out. So what they've been doing is digging containment lines, pulling down, cutting down trees to try to prevent the fire from having enough fuel to burn. But it has been a losing battle for them.

Take a listen to how one firefighter described the challenges of battling this massive blaze.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE TONE, INCIDENT MANAGER, BOOTLEG FIRE IN OREGON: The fire itself is faster than the firefighters can get control over it. The winds and the trees and the brush that is so dry burns at a rate faster than we can keep up with it, no matter how many people we're throwing at it we're -- it outpaced us for several days.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: And Pam, the women and the men that we spoke to on the fire crews said they've battled large blazes before, but they've never seen anything grow so large so quickly this early in the fire season -- Pam.

BROWN: Lucy Kafanov, thank you so much live, for us in Nevada. Well, Florida is a coronavirus hotspot again. It's leading the nation

in average new daily cases, and the state's governor vows mandates for masks and vaccines will not be an option to deal with it. Congressman Charlie Crist joins me next with what he thinks needs to be done.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:41]

BROWN: The highly contagious Delta variant is taking hold across the country, fueling a 65 percent jump in new cases, especially among the unvaccinated. New cases are trending up in 49 states, and Southern California, Los Angeles County, is seeing daily cases top 3,000 for the first time since February. And the county is taking action.

Paul Vercammen joins me now from Los Angeles.

So, Paul, with the Delta variant spreading at such an alarming rate, what are health officials saying there?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the things that they are doing is they're getting out in neighborhoods like this. This is Watts, it's predominantly African-American and Latino. They're literally knocking on doors. That included the county health director. More on that just a second. But let's show you those numbers.

They did dip a little bit below 3,000 today in terms of the new cases. But what is going up, alarming, 10 new deaths and also 688 hospitalizations. We have not seen spikes like these in L.A. County since last December, and the big winter surge.

So when they fanned out today, they're trying to find out why some people are still reluctant to get the vaccine. Dr. Ferrer knocking on doors herself says this is often what they encounter when it comes to the unvaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BARBARA FERRER, PUBLIC HEALTH DIRECTOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: We also heard a lot of misinformation, people scared to get the vaccine. The most two dominant themes today were, we don't trust the government's numbers, we think they're not telling us the truth about the vaccine and how safe it is, and we have heard of people that we think had a bad experience with the vaccine.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And so they are making little victories. Benjamin Jackson was in this park and a nurse convinced him to come on in and get a shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN JACKSON, GOT FIRST PFIZER SHOT: You know, I'm a local right here. I be right here at the park every day, and they was walking around, giving out a lot of information. The lady that really encouraged me, she's not here right now, but, you know, she came by every day for about like a month and a half. We was talking about we didn't want to take the shot, we were scared, this, that. They gave us a lot of information and I told her I was going to come down and get vaccinated.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[19:25:00]

VERCAMMEN: And Benjamin added he's a smoker. He's somewhat immunocompromised and he's glad he finally got the right message and got a shot. And that's the theme behind me, is just to continue to convince the unvaccinated to get vaccinated in Los Angeles County.

Reporting from Watts, I'm Paul Vercammen. Back to you -- Pam.

BROWN: Persistence really paid off from that local official who kept providing him the information.

All right, Paul Vercammen, thank you so much.

Well, Florida now has the dubious distinction as the most infected state in the country. More than 73,000 new COVID-19 cases have swept across the state this past week, and that is only part of the story. Cases have more than doubled compared to two weeks ago. Deaths are up 64 percent during that same time frame, and hospitalizations have more than tripled.

We want to make very clear here that this is the majority of unvaccinated people. That's what is driving this. Those numbers reflect mostly what is happening among the unvaccinated.

Joining me now is -- from St. Petersburg is Democratic Congressman Charlie Crist. I will also note that Congressman Crist is running for governor.

So let's start there. Thanks for coming on, Congressman. Incumbent Ron DeSantis is a rising star in the Republican Party. He has vowed that he will not mandate masks or state lockdowns. What do you think about that message?

REP. CHARLIE CRIST (D-FL): I think it is a horrible message. This is a time we need responsible leadership at the top, and the fact that you would sort of have a head-in-the-sand approach, if you will, and not talk about wearing masks again, not talk about wearing masks when our schools are about to open upstate wide in Florida, not social distancing, and then he makes fun of Dr. Fauci and mocks him, if you will, came out with campaign literature and koozies for beer cans that say "Don't Fauci My Florida."

Well, we've been more than Fauci-ed in Florida. The COVID virus has exploded in Florida. And that's what we're dealing with and the leadership at the top, and it breaks my heart to say this, is not being responsible and addressing it appropriately.

BROWN: Your fellow Floridian Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz told me recently, she put the blame directly on Governor DeSantis for Florida's COVID surge. Do you agree with her? Does he deserve all the blame in your view?

CRIST: He certainly does. And I would agree with Debbie. She's a dear friend and a very smart member of Congress. And I can tell you this, you know, when we look at national crises, we look to the president for leadership. When you have a statewide crisis, and right now, sadly, Florida is number one in the spike, in the increase of coronavirus in the country, you look to the governor for leadership, and we're simply not getting it.

It's a sad state of affairs. I used to be governor, and whenever we would have hurricanes coming to the state or other crises that we had to deal with this, you have to be there. You know, 90 percent of it is showing up. We haven't seen that from Governor DeSantis. I wish we would. I pray that we will. But in the meantime --

BROWN: I just want to point out, though, I mean --

CRIST: -- people are dying.

BROWN: Yes, people are dying. But I do want to point out that he has actually shown leadership on stressing the importance of vaccines. Governor DeSantis, other leading Republicans, they have been putting that message out there. It is an important message for those who are hesitant based on partisan divides. Do you think that will help?

CRIST: Oh, of course, it will help. But, you know, it's a matter of, you know, are you doing enough when you need to be doing it? And in my humble opinion he is not doing enough. He ought to be barnstorming Florida, you know, having press conferences, you know, by the minute, talking to people and encouraging them to get the vaccine.

I read a very sad local story, Pam, that talked about the fact that a doctor was treating a patient who had just gotten sick with COVID and was asking to get the vaccination, and he said, I'm sorry, it's too late. And that's tragic. It is truly heartbreaking.

But if the governor would lead more strongly and really lean into this and say, you know, people, you've got to get vaccinated, it is so important, it is life or death, I don't know why he's not doing it more. I really don't understand it. And then he goes out to the border in Texas. It's unbelievable.

BROWN: And, of course, his office would say, look, we've been out there, we've been promoting the vaccine. You criticized him for saying there shouldn't be a mask mandate. Do you think there should be mask mandates or state-ordered lockdowns?

CRIST: Yes, of course. I mean, my gosh.

BROWN: You do?

CRIST: People are dying. Over 38,000 Floridians are dead and now we're number one in the country in the new Delta variant? If now is not the time to act, then you don't know what acting and leading is all about. This is the time to act. This is the time to do what's right.

BROWN: So just to be clear the CDC doesn't --

CRIST: Not everybody is going to agree with it but you're going to save lives.

BROWN: The CDC hasn't updated its guidance but you think there should be mask mandates throughout the state of Florida and lockdowns again?

CRIST: Yes, absolutely. I mean, if this doesn't tell you -- if this is not a wake-up call, somebody is asleep. This is what's happening in Florida.

[19:30:01]

And if you want to save lives, this is what you do. I saw the Alabama Governor interviewed earlier today. And she said, I'm telling people this all the time. I don't know what else to do.

We deserve the same kind of leadership from the Florida Governor.

BROWN: Before we let you go, you have co-sponsored the bipartisan Free Britney Act, a very different topic from what we were talking about. But this is something that you feel is important. This is inspired by Britney Spears, a very public fight to break free from her father's conservatorship. What is the importance of this?

CRIST: Well, the importance is to make sure that people are treated well. I think many people have heard the story that Britney Spears was courageous enough to share with us, talking about the fact that she had been in this conservatorship for about 13 years.

And I think the most alarming part of it, Pam is when she revealed the fact that she can't have an IUD removed. She wants to have more children and the conservatorship is not permitting that to happen.

So, we've introduced legislation -- I'm the Democrat sponsor, Nancy Mace from South Carolina is the Republican sponsor, obviously, therefore, it's bipartisan. And it would simply say that you would be able as an individual, such as Britney, be able to petition the court, if you think you're being abused unfairly, so that you could have an independent review and you could get out of that conservatorship or guardianship, depending on what is the current state of law in your state.

BROWN: It's one of the few issues in Washington bringing politicians on both sides of the aisle together. That is for sure. And I understand it is your birthday today. Congressman Charlie Crist, so thank you for being a part of it with us. I'm sure there would be nothing rather you'd rather be doing at 7:30 on a Saturday night than be on CNN NEWSROOM. So we appreciate you coming on your birthday. Thank you.

CRIST: It's a pleasure to be with you. I love Florida and it's important to talk about this. BROWN: Absolutely. Well, still ahead, the N.S.A. sets the record

straight after Tucker Carlson claims they are spying on him. Plus, how much is FOX News to blame for the U.S. losing progress against the pandemic, I'll ask a former top reporter at the network, what's behind the rhetoric there and whether it's costing lives?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:36:42]

BROWN: New this evening, two sources telling CNN that an N.S.A. review finds no evidence that the Intelligence Agencies spied on FOX News host, Tucker Carlson or targeted him. The right-wing personality claimed the N.S.A. not only spied, but planned to leak his communications to take him off the air.

One source says Carlson's name was picked up in third-party communications and his identity was unmasked meaning others mentioned him. N.S.A. foreign Intel reports usually redact names unless U.S. officials cite a justifiable reason to ask for them.

Last month, the N.S.A. formally and flatly denied Carlson spying accusations.

Meanwhile, Carlson appears to be undermining his own network's sudden campaign to embrace COVID vaccinations. But the network is also being accused of putting lives in danger by the message spread by him and several other FOX personalities. Take a look at some examples in this new anti-FOX ad from The Lincoln Project.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: How many Americans have died after taking the COVID vaccine?

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Going door to door? This is creepy stuff.

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: The focus of this administration on vaccination is mind boggling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The Lincoln Project added that creepy music, but you get the point there. All of that anti-vaccine rhetoric may be having real world consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Do you hear that echoed back at you when sick people come into the hospital system? Are those the kinds of messages you hear? What are they telling you?

STEVE EDWARDS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, COXHEALTH: Like I mean very direct. It's as if they're quoting Tucker Carlson themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Tonight, I am joined by one of the most respected names in political reporting and he made his name at FOX News. Carl Cameron, better known to FOX viewers as Campaign Carl. He was chief political correspondent spending 20 years in Washington and on the trail getting answers from top politicians and White House contenders.

When he left four years ago, the network said, "Carl has been the heart and soul of our political journalism for the entire existence of FOX News. We are incredibly sad to see him go." Now, keep that in mind as we welcome Carl Cameron tonight. He is also the co-founder of frontpagelive.com.

Thank you so much for being here with us, Carl. You have an insight that few can share given this dynamic of what is going on there. We see Carlson -- Tucker Carlson question the vaccines almost every night. As a former FOX reporter, what's your reaction? What's your message to him?

CARL CAMERON, FORMER FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He is talking out of both sides of his mouth because he did make a statement to say, you know, people should get vaccinated and then he has sort of been rolling it back with various different sort of insults, as to whether or not you should get vaccinated.

So, we're still in a situation where FOX is on the wrong side of the facts, on the wrong side of science. Science doesn't care what you believe. And unfortunately, what's happening by the opinion hosts and the main anchors at primetime, not only at FOX, but at the One American Network and Newsmax and everything else, they are lying to the American people and putting their lives in jeopardy.

For Tucker Carlson to be in a beef with anybody about all of this is just another example of how cable television particularly in the far right is more interested in putting people's eyeballs on the TV, so they can get to the ads and make money.

[19:40:07]

CAMERON: It is it is bad politics to take your constituents and run them on a plank of death, and that's what an awful lot of Republicans are doing by denying the necessity of vaccination. I mean, every single day people turn on CNN and they see the incredible number of statistics that you show, we've got a 65 percent increase because of the variant that we have now. There are more coming than from just this one.

There is the lambda variant that is coming out of South America and South Africa and all over the world, we're having all these new things. So, it has to stop. People who are denying science for the sake of political and/or monetary gain are really doing a disservice to the country. It is unpatriotic. It is un-American to put your neighbors and your family at the risk of death.

BROWN: To put it bluntly, is FOX News killing people? CAMERON: Any organization that says that you don't need to get

vaccinated and you don't take care of yourself during this pandemic is culpable. It's as simple as that. It's a cliche, it's over said, but you can't yell fire in a crowded movie house. Why? Because it disturbs the peace. And that can be a misdemeanor or a felony.

So, this is what's happening. The American people are being misled by unjust, unfair, and uncaring media on the far right, and it is all about maintaining Trump's power. We don't even know if he is going to be running at this point.

And it has to stop. FOX needs to correct it.

If it has to be the Murdochs to come in and stop this, they should do so. It is a worldwide pandemic. It is a worldwide problem, and a couple of networks on cable and a whole bunch of social media in the United States is making it worse on a daily basis.

BROWN: And what I hear you saying is you believe that at least certain hosts on FOX News like Tucker Carlson are culpable in people dying, people who haven't gotten the vaccine because they are listening to the misinformation.

CAMERON: I have a challenge for anybody who works in television or anybody who works in journalism. If you are going to make a statement about vaccines not saving lives, you need to disclose whether or not you've been vaccinated.

The vast majority of journalists in D.C. and around the country on the national level have all gotten their vaccinations, whether they are an anchor, whether they're a reporter, or whether they're a talking head, they've gotten their vaccinations, and they're lying to their audience.

BROWN: And it's interesting, because you're seeing just recently a little bit of a shift at FOX. FOX has this new public service announcement running with its daytime hosts encouraging people to get vaccinated. But then you talk about doublespeak earlier, you know, Sean Hannity at one point came out and said, look, trust the science of vaccines, I think, you know, the science is good, I trust the science with the vaccines.

But then he came out --

CAMERON: He backpedaled.

BROWN: The he backpedaled and said, I never try -- you know, I never told anyone to get the vaccine kind of undercutting the message he said earlier. What do you think about this mixed messaging and what's going on over there with this?

CAMERON: Well, TV hosts are not politicians, but TV hosts are still worried about losing their constituency or in the case of TV, audience. So, he may have had a second thought because he got a hell of a lot of hate mail from some of the people he had been telling that they didn't need a vaccine. And then suddenly he said, do so. He may be facing the music for his own rhetoric, which keeps on

changing depending on circumstances. And it would be wonderful to find out who put the idea in his head to first say, maybe you should have a vaccine, it's a good idea, and then double back on it. Somewhere he had to have made that decision.

BROWN: What do you say to Tucker Carlson who has kind of pushed back even after that PSA aired and said, look, cable news channels aren't health channels. We're not health officials. The irony is he comes out all the time knocking the vaccine or raising questions about it. So, a bit of a hypocrite saying that, but what do you think about that argument?

CAMERON: I think it's interesting that he would denigrate his own venue. I mean, that would be like Pam Brown saying, you know, it's only cable. Don't listen to me. It's bizarre. When he says something that is offensive, and he gets in trouble, he appears to have back stepped a little bit. And then as soon as the fire is over, he's back doing the same thing.

That's not journalism. That's not even good television.

Who can you trust? You can trust CNN, you can trust the major ABC, NBC, CBS, but when you get past that, it's real hard. MSNBC is a little bit left. FOX is very, very far right. And CNN is sort of stuck in the middle trying to get people to understand the facts.

BROWN: Right.

CAMERON: And it's a terrible situation. It doesn't seem to be getting any better, and as we continue to discuss this problem, what's happening? More and more people are getting infected, whether it's Francis Collins at the N.I.H. --

BROWN: And they are going to the ER and telling the doctors we just heard, well, Tucker Carlson told me this. That's why I didn't get the vaccine.

CAMERON: And so they go in sick and then it's too late to get the shot. They have already lost the window. This is going to get worse. The longer people continue to say that vaccines don't work, the more people are going to die. It's as simple as that.

[19:45:16]

BROWN: Yes. And I just keep thinking, you know, if you're doing this for money, or power, whatever, you know, look, as you well know, this business is fickle, too. And there's -- you know, you could leave at the drop of a hat and you have to reckon with the work that you've done.

CAMERON: But there is a huge difference between fickle and deadly, and that's where these organizations that are lying about the science have crossed a line that could be the end of their long term futures.

BROWN: And their integrity. Carl Cameron, thank you so much for joining us and offering your perspective on this important topic.

CAMERON: Thanks for all you do.

BROWN: Teachers, well, they may be the most important resource in the classroom, and in many places across the country, schools just don't have enough of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:21]

BROWN: As schools across the country get ready to reopen for in-person learning, a new problem has emerged, a teacher shortage. CNN's Adrienne Broaddus has all the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. STEVEN WROBLEWSKI, SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT, LASALLE-PERU TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL: We currently have a Chemistry-Physics teaching position that we have zero applicants for right now.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Steven Wroblewski is now the superintendent of the district he once attended at LaSalle- Peru Township High School, an hour and a half southwest of Chicago is dealing with a teacher shortage.

WROBLEWSKI: I'm really concerned, you know, about how we're going to be able to fill that position.

BROADDUS (voice over): A problem he says the COVID-19 pandemic made worse.

WROBLEWSKI: Six years ago, we'd have an English or a social studies position posted. Within five days we'd have 75 to 100 applicants. This past school year for one of our Math positions, we had three applicants.

BROADDUS (voice over): A survey by Frontline Education pulled about 1,200 school and district leaders in the country. Frontline is a company that helps K through 12 schools recruit and train educators. It revealed two out of three respondents reported a teacher shortage and 75 percent of city school districts are dealing with a shortage, that's compared to 65 percent in rural areas, and 60 percent in suburban districts.

WROBLEWSKI: Where are we going to find science and math teachers?

SHARON DESMOULIN-KHERAT, SUPERINTENDENT, PEORIA PUBLIC SCHOOLS: We had to go international because our pool in the United States, it's actually very, very dry. Yes and they're going to be there.

BROADDUS (voice over): To fill openings in Peoria, Illinois, Sharon Desmoulin-Kherat hire teachers from other countries.

DESMOULIN-KHERAT: So we have 27 that are coming from the Philippines, two from Dominican Republic, and one from Cameroon. So three to five- year program, and it is a cultural exchange program.

BROADDUS (voice over): Desmoulin-Kherat said in 2015, the district had 79 openings. Now, there are three because of aggressive recruiting strategies.

DESMOULIN-KHERAT: We are also doing bonuses, sign-on bonuses. If you refer a candidate, there is also a stipend for you as well. Where you utilize in at least eight different strategies simultaneously to really combat this national crisis.

BROADDUS (voice over): And a Frontline study shows other reasons behind the national teacher shortage, a lack of qualified applicants, salary, and fewer new education school graduates. Wroblewski hasn't hired anyone from other countries, but is working with colleges and universities to help fill the jobs and he is already concerned about the school years ahead.

WROBLEWSKI: I'm worried though, as I look at my own staff and see a population that is getting nearer to retirements.

BROADDUS (voice over): Adrienne Broaddus, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And still to come, the Mayor of Austin, Texas says if he could, quote, "order" all children and teachers to mask without ending up in court, he would quote, "do it in a heartbeat." I'll talk to him about his new push for everyone to wear a mask, up next.

But first, a 90-year-old man who is walking with a purpose.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:58:16]

BROWN: Tonight, a 90-year-old man is on a mission to fight childhood cancer. Dean Troutman set out from his home in Illinois two weeks ago embarking on a 3,500 mile walk across more than a dozen states to raise money for St. Jude's Children's Hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN TROUTMAN, WALKING FOR CHARITY: ... these old legs would hold up, and the donations continue pouring in to St. Jude, I'm going to continue this circle through 16 states and I'll return back home next July or August.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Oh my god. I love him. To donate, you can visit his website troutmantrek.com. What an inspiration.

Well, this week, on an all-new "Jerusalem: City of Faith and Fury," learn how the city's people pay the ultimate price when three empires collide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you look at Roman descriptions of Cleopatra, they are all in a negative light because basically all of these guys in a way misogynists.

SUSAN WISE BAUER, HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR, "THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD" SERIES: The word unscrupulous is used a lot, which I think is very, very unfair, because the scruples that she was having to work around weren't hers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you see how incredibly frustrating this must have been for an intelligent, energetic woman.

ANTHEA BUTLER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Cleopatra is a woman who sees herself as being a bigger player than what a male dominated world would want to make her be.

Women don't have a lot of power in this patriarchal culture, but there are ways in which they can gain power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The all-new episode of "Jerusalem: City of Faith and Fury" airs tomorrow night at 10 Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

[20:00:06]