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Supreme Court Rules Unions Cannot Enter Private Businesses without Paying; President Set to Announce Gun Crime Prevention Strategy; Sources Say, Ivanka, Kushner Distancing Themselves from Trump. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 23, 2021 - 10:30   ET



JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: This one was Snapchat. And we're not going to discipline them unless there is some victim involved, like bullying.

And I think, frankly, this is a great opinion. It shows that an 82- year-old justice like Stephen Breyer can understand how the modern world works. And good for this student who took her case all the way to the Supreme Court. She's not identified by name, only B.L. in the case.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Well, it sounds some adult (INAUDIBLE), frankly, as well.

Jeffrey, I know you pushed back on me on this one when I brought this up the other day but I do want to ask you a question here. This is an 8-1 decision. A couple days ago, we had 9-0 decision, 7-2 on the ACA but bigger than the prior margins. All the talk was about a straight 6-3 split, six solid conservatives, always going to go that way, three liberals always going to go this way.

You've seen, have you not, or am I wrong, some unexpected, perhaps, overlap or coming meeting of the minds on some of these decisions?

TOOBIN: I will grant you some unexpected overlap. That's as far as I'll go. I mean, these are interesting cases that we've heard. I mean, the NCAA case was unanimous. This case was close to unanimous. Wait until we get to the hot-button social issues. I mean, these cases are off the -- we still have a very big voting rights act case outstanding out of Arizona, a case that gets more relevant every day that it's outstanding because of what's going on in Congress about the voting rights act, what's going on in the states with the voting rights act.

Let's talk about the kumbaya moments in the Supreme Court when they start unifying on these divisive social and political issues. Yes, it is true, and I think it is good when the Supreme Court speaks in a close-to-unanimous voice as it has recently, but let's hold off on making any big judgments about the court changing.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I will hold off on making the unexpected overlap until decrypts until that point. POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: You know, how much I like you, Toobin. I'm going to give Sciutto some points. He makes a really good point, and we'll see what happens with Arizona, but I hear you.

But before you go, can we ask you about Breyer writing all these big opinions and then all the talk about where he's going to go next term and apparently he totally understands Snapchat, as you pointed out. But I don't know, what does it tell you that, again, Breyer wrote the majority here?

TOOBIN: Well, it tells you that the chief justice assigned him those opinions. That's how opinion writing works in the Supreme Court. And the question we will ask is, is he doing this as a gesture to let him have a big swan song in his last year or is he assigning those opinions because he wants to show Justice Breyer, look, you're still a valued member of this court, stay with us a few years longer. Both of those are possibilities. I don't know which one is right.

SCIUTTO: Ultimately, it will be up to him. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much. Goodness, the news keeps coming. We'll be right back.



HARLOW: We have more breaking news from the Supreme Court just handing down its majority opinion on union access in private businesses.

SCIUTTO: One of the big social issues before the court this term.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins us now from Washington. What was the decision and what was the vote?

SCHNEIDER: Well, we're seeing this one come down in the more traditional party line fashion, if you will, 6-3, the conservatives joining together to issue this opinion, really going against union organizers in California in favor of agricultural growers.

So, the justices here saying a that California law that allowed union organizers on to agricultural properties. There was a law that they're allowed for three hours per day, for as many as 120 days per year for union organizing activity, but the conservative justices here joining together to say that this really amounts to an unconstitutional government taking of property.

And in order for this California law to continue to allow these union organizers somewhat unfettered access to these agricultural employees on this agricultural property, California either can't enforce this law anymore or they have to properly compensate these agricultural growers for the time that they're spending on the land here.

So, really, this going down among traditional party lines, we're seeing the six conservative justices, this is an opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts, and then the three liberals here are dissenting. But this is really a big property rights issue and this is a big victory for the agricultural growers.

Interestingly, the Trump administration had, in fact, taken the side of the agricultural growers. But then when the Biden administration took effect in January, we saw the administration saying that they were siding with the unions here, but in the end, the unions losing out in this case in a 6-3 decision from the conservative court here. Guys?

SCIUTTO: Jeffrey Toobin, with us. Jeffrey Toobin, no sooner had we discussed unexpected overlap, that you have the 6-3 division here. I mean, a major loss for unions here, is it not?

TOOBIN: Sciutto, I promise I didn't set this up with Chief Justice Roberts, just to make the point I was making, that there are still deep political divisions on this court.


And when you look at issues like labor unions, like personal injury lawsuits, this is a court that overwhelmingly sides with defendants in personal injury lawsuits for employers rather than employees, and this case was just an example of that.

SCIUTTO: Yes, all right, there you go. It's coming at us one-by-one. There are still cases to come from the Supreme Court, so stay tuned later this week. Jeffrey and Jessica, thanks very much.

Later today, President Biden will announce his plan to help curb gun violence as the nation and many cities reel from a stunning rise in violent crime over the last year.

Our next guest is 1 of 28 Democratic mayors from across the country who recently sent a letter to President Biden calling on him to take action on gun violence.

HARLOW: According to the Kansas City Star, the city saw a record 182 homicide victims in 2020, had 620 non-fatal shootings. To put that in perspective, last year, one in every thousand Kansas City residents was shot. That's an unreal statistic.

The mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, Quinton Lucas joins us now.

Look, I mean, we just laid out what you are living in your city and what your residents are living every single day, which obviously is part of -- or driving what sparked this letter to President Biden. What do you want to see him say and do after the remarks today?

MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS (D-KANSAS CITY, MO): I think there are a few things. First, we want sustainable solutions to gun violence. Last year during the Trump administration, we had Operation Legend, where federal agents were sent to cities. And in a lot of our cities, we still saw homicide records. It wasn't that we don't see the need for help, we don't see the need for federal law enforcement, but we want it targeted and prevention issues and intervention, finding jobs and opportunities for those who are coming out of prison. And, importantly, and once and for all, making sure that we're addressing a lot of those people who are in crisis each and every day. So many of our crimes relate to those who are mentally ill. Making sure we invest in those areas is going to be key in addition to supporting law enforcement and paying for things that have all been in existence to fight crime.

SCIUTTO: To your point, when I was out, my team was out with NYPD officers on patrol. You talk to the cops, right? They don't say there's any silver bullet to this, right? It's a multilayer problem with multiple solutions.

I do want to ask you about one piece though because this is a highly charged political issue here. Can you do crime prevention and crime response without addressing the surge in guns, without looking at access to guns?

LUCAS: No, no. And I know there's this big political and legal issue. But, importantly, we have guns that are flooding into our major cities. In Kansas City, we get them from states all around us. Chicago has the same problem, every major city in America. And I would ask the ATF, I'd ask this administration to, when you're looking at federal enforcement, make sure you're getting at illegal dealers, you're looking at our ghost guns problem, you're looking at the trafficking, because the guns aren't made in our major cities, by and large, but they're here and they're getting into the hands of teenagers, 13-year- olds and others.

And that's how so many of these offences are being committed, and we've had this surge in gun violence really crescendoing for years getting to the point now, but something that does need to be addressed. And that's where the feds could make a huge difference for us starting today with better enforcement through ATF.

HARLOW: Mayor, the Kansas City Board of Police Commissioners is now suing the city over this decision supported by you and passed by the city council, to cut the funding to their police department by 20 percent. That's about a cut of $42 million in the annual budget. Why take this money away when you're seeing such a spike in violent crime and shootings?

LUCAS: Well, in some ways, we're not taking the money away from the police department. We were just trying to make sure it's spent on things that Kansas Cityians and Americans alike, neighborhood policing and community policing.

HARLOW: I hear you, but their pushback to that, as you've seen, is your list of what you want it spent on or the city's list aligns with a lot of what they were planning to do.

LUCAS: Right. And so what I would say is, actually, we want to make sure that they're spending in areas that are actually shown to prevent crime. Community policing, neighborhood policing prevent crime, investing in our departmental social workers for those in mental health crisis has helped us prevent crime, working on reentry programs through the police department itself has helped prevent crime. Buying a bunch of tanks, Allah-Ferguson (ph), does not prevent crime. Investing in those sort of areas that have not really shown good results is not what we need.

So, for us in Kansas City, by the end of the year, I plan to have an increased police budget, a new, more diverse recruiting class. But we're going to make sure that spending is in areas that shows an ability to prevent crime rather than throwing money at the problem year after year, which we've done my entire life.

And we've had almost 5,000 people murdered in Kansas City since the mid 1980s. That's a tragic number for a city of 500,000.


We're looking to break this status quo. And that's why you're seeing us, I guess, have this spat with our Board of Police Commissioners because we're the only city in the country without control of our police department.

And that's what we're trying to do long-term, not take money from those fighting crime. Our police officers need help on the streets. They actually like the mental health support. They like making sure that we're invested in neighborhood policing programs that lets them know people, and that's what we're trying to do in Kansas City, and that's what the White House can help us with as well.

SCIUTTO: I heard a lot of that from NYPD cops. I did not hear a single one ask for a tank to responders. Kansas City Mayor Quinton Lucas, we do wish you the best of luck. We know you have a lot on your plate there.

LUCAS: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you, Mayor.

Well, coming up, they were often seen as two of former President Trump's closest allies. Now, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner reportedly distancing themselves from him. New details ahead.



SCIUTTO: New this morning, evidence of a rift within the Trump family.

HARLOW: CNN has learned that the two people very close to the president during his time in office, his daughter, Ivanka Trump, and son-in-law, Jared Kushner, have been distancing themselves from Trump amid his constant complaints about what he claims was a stolen election, but, in fact, was not.

Kate Bennett has this reporting, joins us on the story. What did you hear? KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I worked on this story with our colleague, Gabby Orr. Basically, the continued ongoing arguments and, quite frankly at times, ranting about the 2020 election results and the surrounding of himself with sort of fringe element people, such as MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and others who have very farfetched theories about the election, has really caused a fair amount of distance between Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump who, as we know, were ubiquitous presence during the administration, involved in every aspect of policy, messaging and so forth.

But, for now, the couple rarely even sees the president. Occasionally, they speak on the phone. But, certainly, they are no longer involved in any element of his political future, of his planning of his rallies, of the statements he puts out, the endorsements he's been making of other Republican candidates who are running for office.

This is a real separation between what we saw for four, five years with Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump and Donald Trump and what we're seeing now. And it certainly created a void where other people are filling. One person spoke to Gabby Orr and said that it sort of -- Jared sort of acted like dropping your child off at nursery school, you don't have to stay long each day. Each day you can stay a shorter amount of time. That's kind of how it felt, sort of backing away from this Donald Trump apparatus that was happening, and now to barely even having a presence in his orbit.

SCIUTTO: Kate, just quickly, are either of them willing to say so publicly, that the election was legitimate?

BENNETT: Not so far, Jim. That is not something that either of them have come out and said. They have withdrawn almost completely from social media, Ivanka Trump has at least. So they've been very quiet. Jared Kushner, of course, just signed a seven-figure book deal. Perhaps we'll hear something then. But this is a couple that has stepped away from the limelight and clearly stepped away from their father-in-law and father.

SCIUTTO: Kate Bennett, thanks very much.

HARLOW: Thank you, Kate.

Romance Novelist Jackie Collins is one of the most successful authors of all times, but her best-selling story may be the one she never had a chance to tell before her own death.

SCIUTTO: Now, the new CNN film, Lady Boss, the Jackie Collins Story, explores the personal life of the 1980s icon who promoted her own particular brand of feminism while building a Hollywood and literary empire. Here's a preview.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jackie's novels really helped create the ethos of the '80s.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without any doubt, one of the best-selling authors in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That kind of became who she was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most highly paid author in the United Kingdom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Girl, woman, she. It's another word for a chick, a lady.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like --


HARLOW: Can't wait to see it. Joining us now is Laura Lizer. She was Jackie Collins' business manager and friend. I hope I pronounced your name correctly. Did I?


HARLOW: Okay, good. Look, you were so close to her, both working with her but also on a very personal level. And she was pretty private herself. So you knew the Jackie Collins that almost no one else did. What was she like in private?

LIZER: In private, she was probably just as much fun as everybody saw. I mean, she was private in a sense that she didn't divulge much of her personal life, but she was so, so much fun and so bright and very much into her family. Her family was number one to her. She was just a delight.

SCIUTTO: Jackie Collins considered herself a feminist. There are critics who challenge that. Tell us your view.

LIZER: Definitely was a feminist. She was ahead of her time. She was so pro-women's rights. You can tell in her books, even though she wrote very sexy, very fun, very Hollywood stories. But the underlying message was for women to be strong and to sort of being who they want to be and to have equal rights.


HARLOW: We cannot wait to see it. Thank you so much for joining us this morning with a little bit of that insight and many more of these answers to come in the film. Thank you, Laura.

Be sure to watch the new CNN film, Lady Boss, the Jackie Collins Story. It airs Sunday at 9:00 Eastern.

Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: I'm Jim Sciutto. Quite a newsy day. At This Hour with Kate Bolduan will start right up again after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KATE BOLDUAN, CNN AT THIS HOUR: At this hour, we're beginning with two breaking stories. One, an alleged member of the extremist group, the Oath Keepers, will be pleading guilty today for his role in the deadly Capitol insurrection.


We are also following breaking news out of the Supreme Court, a free speech ruling just handed down.

Let's begin -- let's get to both. Let's begin.