Return to Transcripts main page
At Least 100 Arrested On Sixth Night Of Protests Near Minneapolis; Indianapolis Mass Shooting Victims Range In Age From 19 To 74; U.K. Mourns As Prince Philip Is Laid To Rest; CDC Vaccine Advisers To Meet Again Next Week To Reevaluate J&J Vaccine Pause; CDC: 200 Million Vaccine Doses Administered In U.S.; Pfizer CEO Says Third Vaccine Dose Likely Needed Within Six To 12 Months. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired April 17, 2021 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: And in Chicago, the killing of 13-year- old Adam Toledo by a Chicago police officer, again, brought out a huge crowd of protesters calling for justice. Let's go now to Omar Jimenez in Minneapolis, where protests in Brooklyn Center grew chaotic last night. Omar, what are you learning about what happened?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fred. So, at least 100 people were arrested on Friday night on the sixth night in a row of protests in the name of Daunte Wright since he was killed -- shot and killed at the hands of police.
Now, what we have seen night in and night out where you're on site is these is that they largely start very peaceful in the hundreds with songs, with marches, many stories. And as night falls, things get a little more contentious. And last night in particular, it was a little bit after 10:00 p.m. local time when police declared it an unlawful assembly. They try to clear out the area. And that's when you begin seeing some of the arrests begin.
And that again has been the relationship that we've seen play out during the course of the week and the one we will likely see play out even more so into tonight as well. And of course, all of this comes within the backdrop of the trial of Derek Chauvin in the killing of George Floyd. The closing arguments in that trial are set for Monday.
And in preparation, the city here in Minneapolis has put up additional fortifications, the law enforcement presence is up, even the public school system has earn in remote learning from midway through the week -- through the rest of the week all in anticipation of attention that was just supposed to be for last week, but now you have two tensions running right into each other.
And on the Daunte Wright side, you have the funeral for him on Thursday, and then again, closing arguments for the Chauvin trial on Monday and then jury deliberations will be throughout the week where we could get a verdict in an hour, in a day, in a week, we don't know. But what we do know is from a community perspective, or from a law enforcement perspective, they're bracing for the worse and hoping for the best. WHITFIELD: Really all too much in one city in what appears to be a real consequential week. Omar Jimenez in Minneapolis, thank you so much for that. Let's go to Chicago now. Demonstrators who were demanding justice for Adam Toledo, a 13-year-old boy shot and killed by police last month.
The protests remain peaceful but people are still outraged. CNN's Martin Savidge is joining me now. So, Martin, we understand two people were arrested last night?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): That's right, Fredricka. Remarkably low number actually given the fact how many people showed up and demonstrated. And of course, what has people on edge, what has emotions all cranked up is, of course, body cam video that was released on Thursday. We're going to show you that video in just a moment and I warn you, it's not suitable for everyone. So, before we get there, I will let you decide if you want to watch it.
The protests last night, the biggest one was in Logan Square. It started with a couple of hundred people and grew to a couple of thousand, very diverse crowd, a lot of families that were there. But clearly, people in the crowd are angry with the Chicago Police Department over the shooting of this young man. Here's our story.
SAVIDGE (voice over): This is the moment when police killed 13-year- old Adam Toledo. Newly released body cam video showing the officer identified as Eric Stillman firing one shot as Toledo laid raised his hands in the air. Police say this image showed Toledo was holding a gun before Stillman shot him. And they say that gun was found nearby after the shooting. But look closer. When Toledo raised his hands, he did not appear to be holding anything.
Police say that Toledo was holding the gun less than a second before he raised his hands. The family's attorney says they won't know if what Toledo had in his hands was a gun until she has the video forensically analyzed, but says it doesn't change what happened.
ADEENA WEISS-ORTIZ, LAWYER FOR FAMILY OF ADAM TOLEDO: That child complied. Adam complied with the officer's requests, dropped the gun, turned around. The officer saw his hands were up and pulled the trigger.
SAVIDGE: Officer Stillman's lawyer says the officer was left with no other option and that he feels horrible about the outcome. But he was well within his justification of using deadly force.
JOHN CATANZARA, PRESIDENT, CHICAGO FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: That officer had eight-tenths of a second to determine if that weapon was still in his hand or not. The officer does not have to wait to be shot at or shot in order to respond and defend themselves.
SAVIDGE: Police say that they were responding to alerts of shots fired in the early hours of March 29th. Surveillance video appears to show someone shooting toward a car. The new body cam video shows the chase that ensued moments after officer arrived on the scene.
Prosecutors are now charging a 21-year-old man with Toledo at the beginning of the encounter. They say the gun recovered at the scene of Toledo's killing matched the shell casings found at the first locations where the car was fired on, and that Toledo's hands and gloves dropped by the older suspect tested positive for gunshot residue. The White House called the news video chilling.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Too often in this country, law enforcement uses unnecessary force resulting too often resulting in a death of Black and Brown Americans. The President again has repeatedly said that he believes we need police reform.
SAVIDGE (on camera): According to the Chicago Police Department, Officer Stillman has been put on administrative duty, which essentially means he's been taken off the streets and assigned to a desk until it is determined the outcome of this investigation. Fredricka?
WHITFIELD: All right, Martin Savidge, thank you very much, in Chicago. We're now learning more about the victims of that horrific mass shooting in Indianapolis. Police have released the names of the eight people fatally shot by a lone gunman. They range from 19 to 74. Several were members of the Sikh community.
CNN's Jason Carroll is in Indianapolis for us. So, Jason, what more are we learning about these victims and suspect and search for the motive?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The more you see and hear about the victims, you hear their ages, you start to see their faces, you learn about their personal stories, the story then becomes a lot more personal.
As you were saying, the oldest victim was 74 years old. His name John Steve Weisert. He apparently was just about to celebrate his 50th wedding anniversary. Four members of the Sikh community, as you talked about. The youngest victim here, two young girls, just 19 years old. There's going to be a vigil for the victims tonight.
Right now, I want to bring in Carolin Perez. She's a chaplain. She's been out here, Fredricka. She's actually been interacting with some of the victims' family trying to offer comfort. You know, I guess the first question is, you now, when something senseless like this happens, how do you offer comfort? What can you say?
CAROLIN PEREZ, CHAPLAIN, BILLY GRAHAM'S EVANGELICAL RAPID RESPONSE TEAM: Well, our chaplain team brings what we call a ministry of presence, and that's being available to people to allow them to talk and to share their stories because that's the way they begin the healing process. And through those conversations, we hope to bring them encouragement and hope. CARROLL: It's got to be incredibly difficult conversations to have
with people in this type of time.
PEREZ: They are indeed. But sometimes it's just a matter of being a listening ear because people need to talk. They need to share their experience. And through that experience, then they're able to begin the healing process. So, oftentimes it's not about the things that you say but it's about just being a listening ear and available to people.
CARROLL: Being a good listener. And I know from just you and I talking, you've had to have a lot of these difficult conversations. I asked you, is this your first time having to do this at a mass shooting. You were saying, how many times have you had to do this?
PEREZ: Probably a dozen, at least, different occasions, unfortunately.
CARROLL: What does that say to you? It's got to wear on you as well.
PEREZ: Well, it does. We have a wonderful debriefing process within our own organization, but it just reminds us that life is uncertain and that we have to be prepared for situations like this and be able to be available for people to help them get through difficult times like this.
CARROLL: You know, I'm wondering if a number of people start to become numb because we've been through so many of these types of shootings. What do you say to folks who are probably out there watching us now who may not have someone who has personally has been affected by this but seen this over and over and over again in the news?
PEREZ: Well, we try to explain to them that they need to seek ways to get encouragement and to understand that these are difficult times we're living in. And everybody has their own personal disaster. We say even before disasters like this, 80 percent of the people are already going through their own personal disasters, so this just makes things a little bit worse.
CARROLL: All right, I want to thank you very much, Carolin Perez, a Chaplain who's been out here doing a good work.
PEREZ: Thank you for -- thank you for having me.
CARROLL: Thank you so very much. I know, Fredricka, you would also ask about the investigation, the suspect in all of this, Brandon Scott Hole, 19 years old. We are getting word that he is former FedEx employee, last employed at FedEx in 2020. 2020 was also the year that his mother contacted local police and he was interviewed by the FBI. His mother was concerned that he might try to commit suicide by cop.
Last year was also the year that he had a gun seized. They searched his home, they searched his vehicle, but at this point, Fredricka, still no motive.
WHITFIELD: Yes, so troubling. Jason Carroll, thank you so much in Indianapolis. So, that tragic shooting in Indianapolis is part of a troubling trend. In the past month alone, there have been at least 45 mass shootings in America. President Biden calling the violence an epidemic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This has to end. It's a national embarrassment. It is a national embarrassment what's going on. And it's not only these mass shootings that are occurring, every single day -- every single day there's a mass shooting in the United States if you count all of those who were killed out on the streets of our cities and our rural areas. It's a national embarrassment and must come to an end.
Dimitri Roberts is a former Chicago police officer and a law enforcement analyst. It's so good to see you, Dimitri.
DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: Same here.
WHITFIELD: One of the things President Biden is pushing for is expanded background checks. Do you believe that universal background checks could be an answer when you are talking about 45 mass shootings in the last month?
ROBERTS: I think that's a step in the right direction, Fredricka, but it's not the total solution. There has to be the right technology behind those background checks. There has to be a continuous update and a continuous flow of data that is supported by background checks but that is not going to just solve whatever's going on.
But, again, when we look at these things nationally, we understand that nothing is just the sole solution but that's where we have to band together and come up with what most reasonable people would say is a step in the right direction and I think that's the first step.
WHITFIELD: So, you're saying, yes, there ought to be a variety then of restrictions, a variety of answers?
WHITFIELD: So, assault weapons are often used in many of these mass shootings. Do you believe a ban on those type of weapons is among the changes, among the things to entertain to help lower the number of mass shootings?
ROBERTS: Absolutely, Fredricka. Again, when we talk about the wide variety of options that are here, I think banning assault weapons is at the top of the list. We look at other countries that have, you know, banned not just the assault weapons but banned weapons period, and they don't face these same problems we do at the rates that we do.
So, again, we have to do it on both sides. But I think taking assault weapons off the street and allowing them not to be an option for folks, again, doesn't stop the propensity for folks to do it but it does reduce how and how often it could be happening.
WHITFIELD: You worked as a police officer in Chicago for several years. This latest shooting not considered a mass shooting but instead a police-involved shooting. When you talk about this 13-year-old boy shot by a police officer, the police say the boy was seen holding a gun at -- which precipitated that chase last month.
But then when that video is extrapolated, it appears as though the boy complies by turning around when asked to stop and in some of those screenshots, he doesn't have a gun in his hands. So, in your view, does a change in the use of-of force guideline might prevent a shooting like this, or do you believe that shooting was justified?
ROBERTS: Well, I definitely don't think the shooting was justified, let me start by saying that. But secondly, in the Chicago use-of-force continuum, which got drilled into my head as every other Chicago Police officer's head from the day they step into the police academy, that is not the proper use of force given what was going on.
He gave him verbal directions. He followed those verbal directions. And as a result, nobody should end up dead. So, no, there doesn't necessarily need to be a change in the use-of-force policy as there needs to be a change in the officers that are executing it.
WHITFIELD: And then, what's your view on the officers' response with the Minnesota police officer that's been charged with second-degree manslaughter in the killing of Daunte Wright? She fired a handgun instead of a taser. You hear it in the recording. She's saying taser, taser, taser.
The police chief, you know, has since resigned saying the body cam video indicates that it was unintentional. But what's your view on the explanation of the officer saying she thought she was usinga taser, and this is a 20-year-plus veteran. And aren't tasers usually on a different side of the body than a revolver?
ROBERTS: They absolutely are, Fredricka. That's taught. That's trained. When you go through taser training, that's where they tell you to put it. But at the end of the day, that is the height of accountability. She should be charged.
Now, how that plays out in prosecution is going to be a different story. But they're taking the right steps, at least in Minnesota, to ensure officers, regardless of a mistake, at the end of the day, we don't have the opportunity to choke in situations like that because people end up dead. And we've seen that throughout the country over years.
Fredricka, I have been on your show multiple times talking about these same issues year over year. And we still come back down to the same thing. It's what I said on Don's show. We have to clean house. These departments have to clean house.
And no matter whether you're a veteran or not, all police aren't created equal. The level of experience a police officer working in the seventh district of Chicago is not be the same experience as somebody working in the suburb of Minnesota has.
So, we have to have universal training standards and some universal experience that understands that when these officers are put in these situations that they know what to do and they're not making mistakes. Because on the other side of those mistakes, people end up dead, like 13-year-olds and that is not acceptable by any of our standards.
WHITFIELD: Does it mean that cleaning house doesn't always mean it's precipitated by death? I mean, might some of the signals be sent before someone tragically dies?
ROBERTS: Well, that's where we have the opportunity to incorporate some technology into these things. If we can get the right data to the right people at the right time, and they will have the opportunity to make better decisions. And hopefully, we can bring about solutions that most people can stand behind and we can start using in a very short order that can help offset these things in real-time.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, I say, revolver could be pistol, could be handgun, but everybody knows what I'm talking about. All right, Dimitri Roberts, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
ROBERTS: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right, when we come back, Queen Elizabeth saying goodbye to her husband of 73 years, Prince Philip, as the family comes together to honor the duke of Edinburgh. We'll go live to Windsor next.
WHITFIELD: The Royal Family said farewell today to its patriarch, Prince Philip, who died last week at the age of 99. It was a simple and elegant ceremony that the Prince himself helped plan, reflecting his faith and long association with the British Military, especially the Royal Marines.
With the world watching, he was laid to rest in Saint George's Chapael at Windsor Castle. Inside the chapel, only 30 people because of COVID restrictions. Joining were his wife, Queen Elizabeth, members of the Royal Family.
CNN's Bianca Nobilo is at Windsor Castle. Prince Philip himself designed the land rover that carried his casket. COVID restrictions modified other things. So, Bianca, is it the case this was still quite grand in an understated kind of way for him?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly the case, Fredricka. In fact, it was the perfect mix, those who know the Duke of Edinburgh say, between his wishes and meticulous plans that he made over so many years for this day and then the COVID-19 protocols which are in place in the United Kingdom. It was by all accounts a historic day for the nation in truly historic circumstances.
I spent most of the day, Fred, right by Windsor Castle surrounded by police and stewards who were there to ensure crowds didn't develop. That was their number one concern. The Royal Family had asked the nation that they wanted them to be able to share in the funeral so they televised it, but they asked them to stay away from the royal residences and to stay away from Windsor Castle, not to bring tributes of flowers or messages but instead to write online messages of condolence.
So, today, that is what i thought all around. The police being very sensitive. They were not being heavy-handed but there were a lot them just to ensure that everything went to plan. Then in the funeral itself, there were only 30 mourners in a chapel that can house 800. And it was the intention, Fred, to begin with, the 800 would be present before the pandemic if the Duke of Edinburgh were to pass away.
Then the mourners inside that chapel had to wear mask if they weren't in a so-called bubble together, isolating or living together in these COVID times. So, that meant that brothers, Prince Harry and Prince William who have been separated by the Atlantic recently, were not only separated by social distancing and masks but by this famous gulf which developed between them.
We also then saw the Queen sitting alone. And I think for most of the people I spoke to, and certainly, when I watched it myself, that was the most sad and poignant moment. The queen, who is used to having Prince Philip by her side, having been married 73 years, sitting alone in Saint George's Chapel.
But as odd as it is to say, Fred, it's actually more in keeping with the Duke of Edinburgh's personal taste and his wishes that he had this pared-down event today. He did not like fuss. He didn't like pomp and ceremony. He liked things done efficiently and with dignity. And today, Windsor certainly delivered on that.
WHITFIELD: It sure did. But, boy, was it striking and beautiful and just the music that a choir of four could fill that chapel the way it did. It was extraordinary to see all the way around. Bianca, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
All right, coming up, why health experts are concerned that the pausing of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may lead to a rise in vaccine hesitancy.
WHITFIELD: The CDC's independent panel of vaccine advisers will meet again next week to re-evaluate the pause of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Members of the panel say they need more data to determine if there is a link between the vaccine and rare blood clots. This after six people who got the vaccine developed blood clots. Nearly seven million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine have been administered right here in the United States.
Joining me right now to discuss is Jessica Malaty Rivera, an infectious disease expert and the science communication lead for the COVID Tracking Project. It's so good to see you. So, what should people make of this pause?
JESSICA MALATY RIVERA, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: You know, the J&J pause should, in my opinion, actually boost vaccine confidence. It should send a clear message that our regulatory system is working, that they are very responsive to safety signals, that they don't take it lightly, and that their decisions are based on data.
JESSICA MALATY RIVERA, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT & SCIENCE COMMUNICATION LEAD, THE COVID TRACKING PROJECT: This might end up being a one-in-a-million chance of happening if it is linked to the vaccine.
And even still, I think that acting out of an abundance of caution is a direct counter to a lot of the misinformation about the vaccine pace and timing.
WHITFIELD: But do you worry it may provoke the opposite, it may add to the increase of vaccine hesitancy?
RIVERA: It certainly can, which is why I said, as I've said many times on your show, this is why we need to prioritize vaccine and science communications to ensure this is why the vaccine system is proving it's working.
WHITFIELD: More than 200 million coronavirus doses have already been administered in the U.S. But new cases are trending upwards in more than 20 states.
How concerned are you about the threat of yet another case surge, despite all of these vaccinations?
RIVERA: Yes. Yes, it is very concerning, which is why -- and this sounds repetitive -- but it's why our risk mitigation needs to be as it has for so long. It needs to be additive.
We need to continue to prioritize masking, physical distancing, avoiding high-risk activity, even travel in some cases.
Because if there's an outbreak happening in one place, we know it's not insular. We know those outbreaks can spill over to other areas. Which is why we need to continue to prioritize these risk mitigation efforts.
WHITFIELD: Just when so many people were celebrating the idea that they got their two doses, now U.S. officials are preparing people for the possibility that a booster shot is somewhere in their future.
This is the CEO of Pfizer, who says he believes Pfizer's vaccine just might need a booster shot within a year.
RIVERA: Yes. So the conversation about booster had been ongoing for a while, especially in light of the variants. The Pfizer CEO was not making any sort of predictive conclusion or
saying it should be even every 12 months. Either way, that determination is based on data and it's based on the FDA.
Right now, we have data that shows both Pfizer and Moderna provide protective immunity for at least six months. Not only, but at least six months.
Researchers are working tirelessly to get more data. And it will come incrementally. Truly, time and data will tell.
WHITFIELD: OK. And let's talk about young people in this picture. Researchers at Stanford and Cincinnati Children's Hospital have now began testing the Pfizer vaccine in children as young as 2 years old.
What are you looking for from that kind of study?
RIVERA: Yes, this study -- there are studies right now even in children as young as 6 months. And what they're trying to determine is if the vaccine is also safe and effective for children.
We are seeing really promising data come out for the 12 to 15 age group already. We actually anticipate they might be getting access to the vaccine as early as this fall.
For children as young as 2, or even younger than 12, we still are targeting probably close to Q-1, Q-2 of 2022.
But it's the same kind of check. We're making sure that it's effective in kids and it prevents severe illness and death.
WHITFIELD: There's also this new report from Duke University estimating the U.S. could are an estimated excess of 300 million coronavirus vaccine doses by the end of July.
How important is it for the U.S. to prioritize the distribution of vaccine not just in the U.S. but to other countries?
RIVERA: It's extremely important. Global vaccine equity in a global pandemic should absolutely be a priority of the U.S. and any country that is dealing with excess doses.
Without equitable access to vaccines, this pandemic won't end, right?
We need vaccine equity as an expression of solidarity. We need to make sure we're preventing diseases and outbreaks of diseases in other places.
As we know, this emerged in another country and crossed over because viruses don't care about boarders.
So it's of the utmost importance that if we're dealing with a surplus that we are generous in sharing it with countries because there are still numbers of populations that have not yet seen one dose.
WHITFIELD: Jessica Malaty Rivera, thank you very much. Good to see you. Stay well.
RIVERA: Thank you. You, too.
WHITFIELD: With one sentence buried in a lengthy press release this week, the Treasury Department connected the dots between the Trump campaign and Russia. Next, details on these new revelations.
WHITFIELD: This week, the Biden administration answered one of the big of the questions of the years-long Russia investigation.
The Treasury Department says a Russian operative passed sensitive polling data and strategy directly from Donald Trump's 2016 campaign on to Russian intelligence in Moscow.
In other words, the U.S. government just confirmed there was a secret back channel from the Trump campaign to Russian intelligence agencies during the 2016 election.
With me now CNN reporter, Marshall Cohen, and former federal prosecutor, Michael Zeldin.
Good to see both of you.
Marshall, you first.
Explain what is being revealed here exactly, is this a smoking gun?
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: That's the big question, Fred.
Good afternoon to you.
I know it's been five years since 2016 but here's the deal, two big names that you got to pay attention to, Paul Manafort, you probably know him, and Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian intelligence officer.
So what was established this week, for the very first time, was what exactly Kilimnik did with the internal Trump campaign data and strategy insights that Manafort had been passing along to him throughout 2016.
We had known before that Manafort had in-person meetings, emails, encrypted text messages, communications throughout the 2016 campaign with Kilimnik.
Sharing things like internal polling data, strategy insights about how they were going to go after Wisconsin and Michigan, even though nobody thought they had a shot.
Now we learned what Kilimnik did with that information. And according as U.S. Treasury, he provided it, apparently, to
handlers, the Russian intelligence agencies, the same agencies, Fred, that were working as hard as they could at the time to get Donald Trump elected, meddling in the election.
WHITFIELD: So then the Mueller report, it did establish that there was some influence that Russia played, but then the real big question was conspiracy.
Does this information now either add to the Mueller report, dispel it or add credence to it?
COHEN: Well, it's huge corroboration for the Mueller report. I mean, huge -- for anybody who said this was not a hoax, that this was a real scandal, that this was a counterintelligence threat, those people are vindicated today.
I was one of those people. We spent a long time focusing on this investigation because it was important.
But when you look at Mueller, a lot of people wondering this week, where was he. Why didn't he say this?
It's important to remember special counsel, Robert Mueller, was appointed as a prosecutor with a very specific mission, to find potential crime.
It was not sort of a commission where he would look into what happened and spread the truth with the American people. It's sort of a truth commission.
That clearly has taken more time. But now we are learning these details.
And they're important, Fred. You're right to focus on it. It adds a huge piece of the puzzle, a mystery we've been wondering for years.
WHITFIELD: Yes, Michael, them, what now? What about any potential legal fallout here, particularly from any member of the Trump campaign?
MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So remember, Manafort was never charged in any case in U.S. courts with conspiracy or collusion with the Russians.
He was charged principally with financial crimes. And he was pardoned for those financial crimes.
So, in theory, were there to be more direct evidence to come forth that Manafort knew that Kilimnik was giving this information to Russian intelligence.
And that they had an agreement by which Manafort would give it to Kilimnik, and Kilimnik, acting on Manafort's instructions, would then give it to the Russians, then you have the beginnings of a foundation of a conspiracy charge.
Under the facts presently, I don't think such a charge would lie.
But I think Marshall is exactly right, which is to say when Mueller investigated this, Mueller didn't even go so far as to say that Kilimnik was a Russian intelligence agent. It took the Senate to say that a few years later.
Now they're saying he, Kilimnik, gave this directly to Russians. So it's dotting the "I"s and crossing the "T"s.
It does, in Congressman Ted Lieu's mind, show the Russians, in fact, receiving information that they then used to help the Trump campaign.
But that doesn't necessarily make any criminal conspiracy actionable in U.S. courts.
WHITFIELD: So it does at least sound like perhaps a new chapter but not necessarily closing the book entirely.
ZELDIN: Correct. It's definitely important information because it does show that Manafort was giving stuff to Kilimnik, which Kilimnik gave to Russian intelligence, which then Russian intelligence presumably used in its attacks on the 2016 presidential campaign.
So there's a direct line from Manafort to the Russian interference with the U.S. election. It's just whether or not that's a criminal conspiracy charge.
And in some sense, Fred, it's a little bit beside the point.
What really is the most overarching point is that information from the Trump campaign found its way to the Russians, who then in turn apparently used that information in their efforts to disrupt the 2016 election.
That's the headline to me.
WHITFIELD: Sure is.
All right, Michael Zeldin, Marshall Cohen, thank you to both of you gentlemen. So good to see you. Thank you.
COHEN: Thanks, Fred.
WHITFIELD: Meantime, the families of Americans being held in Afghanistan and Russia are raising concerns after President Biden announced sanctions against Russia and the pullout of U.S. troops from Afghanistan.
The U.S. State Department says it will not abandon anyone detained, and released a statement to CNN saying this:
"Americans wrongfully detained or held hostage are not an afterthought. And their safety and recovery are part of any policy discussions." CNN's Kylie Atwood has more.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The families of Americans wrongly detained in Russia and Afghanistan are concerned about the consequences that President Biden's foreign policy announcement this week could have on their loved ones in trying to get them home to the United States.
So the sister of Mark Furyk said that the U.S. will have zero leverage after the U.S. troops leave.
President Biden announced that would happen on September 11th of this year. And that's because her brother is believed to be held by the Haqqani Network, which has ties to the Taliban.
When the U.S. troops leave, which is exactly what the Taliban wants, they will no longer be willing to sit down with the U.S. and potentially negotiate to get her brother home.
Then, when it comes to Russia, there are two Americans held there, Trevor Reed and Paul Whelan.
I want to read to you a statement from Trevor Reed's family's spokesperson after the Biden administration ruled out sanctions and a number of other measures against Russia this week.
He said, quote, "The family is concerned that hostilities could be taken out on Trevor or that it will prolong the ordeal."
Essentially, worried that these new sanctions could have a negative impact on getting Trevor home.
The same is true for all other Americans who are being held in Afghanistan and Russia right now. These families this week were really concerned.
Kylie Atwood, CNN, the State Department.
WHITFIELD: Thank you very much for that.
The new CNN original series, "THE PEOPLE VERSUS THE KLAN," tells the true story of Beulah Mae Donald, a black mother who took on the Ku Klux Klan after the brutal lynching of her son, Michael, and how her legacy lives on today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEULAH MAE DONALD, MOTHER OF MICHAEL DONALD WHO DIED AFTER A LYNCHING: This shouldn't just be a moment. It should be a movement to come together. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the present moment, we honor the names of people
who have been lost to hate by saying it aloud. Say his name. Say her name. Say their names.
Every hashtag that you read today and endeavor to see the humanity of the hashtag is part of his legacy.
Because his mother, Beulah Mae Donald, chose to take on his killers and hold them accountable, which inspires us today to hold accountable those who desecrate and destroy black lives.
That's the legacy of Michael Donald. That's the legacy of Beulah Mae Donald.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Don't miss the powerful conclusion of "THE PEOPLE VERSUS THE KLAN" with back-to-back episodes tomorrow at 9:00 P.M. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.
We'll be right back.
WHITFIELD: A rooky cop in Arkansas has seen more on the job than most of the people he protects and serves have seen in their entire lives. And he is living proof that age is, indeed, just a number.
CNN's Martin Savidge has his story in this week's "BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY."
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Officer L.C. "Buckshot" Smith --
L.C. "BUCKSHOT" SMITH, NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH COORDINATOR, CAMDEN POLICE DEPARTMENT: How you all doing?
SAVIDGE: -- says he knows almost everyone in Camden, Arkansas --
SMITH: Hey, Bennie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what's going on?
SAVIDGE: -- population 11,000 --
SMITH: Good to see you all.
SAVIDGE: -- it's true.
SMITH: All right.
SAVIDGE: At 91, he's spent more time protecting and serving than many residents have been alive -- 56 years.
SAVIDGE (on camera): Have you ever missed a day of work?
SMITH: No, not just to take off.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): For more than four decades, he was a deputy with the Ouachita County Sheriff's Department.
SAVIDGE (on camera): The first time you retired, how long did that last?
SMITH: Thirty days.
SAVIDGE (on camera): Thirty days?
SAVIDGE (voice-over): So, in his eighties, he became a rookie cop on the Camden Police Department.
SMITH: I love to meet peoples, help peoples, and do things for peoples.
SAVIDGE: Chief Boyd Woody is Buckshot's boss.
BOYD WOODY, CHIEF, CAMDEN, ARKANSAS, POLICE DEPARTMENT: So my first year in law enforcement in the jail and Mr. Smith was my supervisor. He was over the jail at that time.
SAVIDGE (on camera): So he was your boss?
WOODY: He was my boss, yes.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Officer Smith starts each day at 7:00 a.m.
SMITH: I like to check in 15 to 20 minutes ahead of time.
SAVIDGE (on camera): You're always early?
SAVIDGE: Somehow, I'm not surprised.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Patrolling neighborhoods, escorting school buses, investigations.
SAVIDGE (on camera): How many arrests have you made?
SMITH: I've taken more people home than I've arrested or took to jail.
SAVIDGE: So you try to come up with another way?
SMITH: Yes, yes, yes.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Role model just may be Officer Smith's most important job, especially to younger officers.
MAYOR JULIAN LOTT (D-CAMDEN, ARKANSAS): Some of them come looking at policing as they saw it on T.V., looking at policing as they see it in a big city. This is a community.
SMITH: I tell them all this badge and gun don't make no police officer. You've got to respect folks. I want to be treated right and I figure you --
SAVIDGE (on camera): Yes.
SMITH: -- want to be treated right.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Next month, Officer Smith will turn 92. The town is planning a parade.
SAVIDGE (on camera): Do you ever think you will retire?
SMITH: When the good Lord says so.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Officer L.C. "Buckshot" Smith serving beyond the call because serving is his calling. And just about everyone in town knows it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you say, buddy?
SMITH: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You doing good?
SAVIDGE: Martin Savidge, CNN, Camden, Arkansas.
WHITFIELD: It is so fun to see him be celebrated even before that birthday.
All right, more to come in the CNN NEWSROOM. A final farewell to Prince Philip. Queen Elizabeth's husband of 73 years laid to rest this morning. The most memorable moments from ceremony next.