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Biden Tries to Sell $2 Trillion Infrastructure Plan as GOP Resists; Prosecution Questions Use-of-Force Expert in Chauvin Trial; Defense Cross Examines Use-of-Force Expert in Chauvin Trial. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 7, 2021 - 14:30   ET




ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: OK. Phil Mattingly, let's jump right into this, senior White House correspondent.

Listen, he is bringing the fire. He's bringing the heat today. He feels angry. He's taking this attack from Republicans against his infrastructure plan head on -- hang on, let's listen.


HILL: Phil, what did you think?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was a calculated strategic effort, as you note. Attack, really attack straight on the criticisms they have received about the proposals.

It's a sweeping proposal, just the first of a two-part plan. The first part $2.25 trillion.

You've heard from Republican after Republican, the most conservative to the most moderate, moderates like Senator Susan Collins, from Maine, is that it's too large on the first point.

On the second points, too much of it doesn't have to deal with traditional infrastructure, roads, bridges, ports waterways. We're talking about $400 billion for home care, $174 billion for a fleet of electric vehicles.

What you just heard the president do is lay out, point by point, why he believes all of this falls under his definition, his umbrella or, as he noted, the evolution of how he wants to define infrastructure.

The biggest point here is, despite these attacks -- and there had been complete unity on the Republican side in attacking on these grounds -- the president is not running away from this plan in any way, shape or form. It underscores the view -- and I hear this, and you heard it from the

president, and I hear this from senior White House officials as well -- they are willing to go big. If that means Republicans are not going to join them, they're willing to move without Republicans.

A couple of other key points, Brooke, that I picked up.

You heard several times that you can almost count on two hands how many times the president said the world "China." This is a key component of kind of his world view as to why he wants this package to be as large as it is.

He believes this is about competition, this is about global competition.

After decades of the U.S., in the White House's view, under-investing in the country, under-investing in key elements of U.S. infrastructure, this is how you compete with global competitors like China.

And one last element I think is important, he made very clear he's willing to negotiate that 28 percent corporate tax rate. But he still wants to pay for the proposal.

So will he negotiate? What he's willing to give is not necessarily a whole lot, as he wants this plan to be as big as he's laid out -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Phil, thanks for the quick analysis there, the president and this infrastructure plan. We shall see.

Thank you very, very much.

With that, let's take you back to Minneapolis to the trial of Derek Chauvin.


STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: So we're clear, that's a sample of Mr. Floyd's blood, correct?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: That's provided to the lab for any testing they might need it for?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And at some point, did you receive a copy of the autopsy report from the medical examiner?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Do you recall what day it was that you received that? REYERSON: I believe it was June 4, 2020.

SCHLEICHER: Did that also include a copy of the toxicology report?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Prior to that, did you have much information in the investigation about any suspected drug use?

REYERSON: We had preliminary information, but nothing concrete.

SCHLEICHER: Where did that preliminary information come from?

REYERSON: I believe some of the information was from the audio files of the radio traffic.

SCHLEICHER: What did that indicate in terms of drug use?

REYERSON: That Mr. Floyd may have been under some influence of some substance.

SCHLEICHER: Did you know at that point what kind substance?

REYERSON: No, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Or what kind of form?

REYERSON: No, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Do you know if any drug use suspected there at the scene?

REYERSON: No, sir.

SCHLEICHER: I want to move to December, then, of 2020.

Was a subsequent request made to conduct a further processing of the Mercedes SUV?

REYERSON: Yes, it was.

SCHLEICHER: Do you recall how that came about?

REYERSON: Per the prosecution's request.

SCHLEICHER: What was requested hat be done?

REYERSON: The reprocessing of the Mercedes-Benz, with particular focus on a few specific items, to include a potential pill.

SCHLEICHER: And how did you -- well, what role did you play , then, the processing of the Mercedes SUV?

REYERSON: Facilitation. I notified the crime scene team lead, McKenzie Anderson. And I was present for that search.

SCHLEICHER: And so was the vehicle brought back to the BCA garage? REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: When I say brought back, where had it been held in the interim?

REYERSON: A secure lot.

SCHLEICHER: By secure, you mean where the public couldn't access it?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: Before it's sent in to secure, is there something that's done to make sure that it's not entered?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Can you describe that for the jurors.


REYERSON: We place crime scene tape over the thresholds of all of the doors and sign and date to ensure a chain of custody so we know if someone has entered that vehicle or not.

SCHLEICHER: When you got that vehicle, the Mercedes SUV, back to the BCA garage, did you check the conditions of the tape on the door frames?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Were they intact?

REYERSON: Yes, they were.

SCHLEICHER: Did the crime scene team process that vehicle again?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Who was involved as the team leader in the processing of that vehicle?

REYERSON: McKenzie Anderson.

SCHLEICHER: Were you present during the process of that vehicle?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: As some point, then, was a request made to reprocess the squad car, 220?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And how did that come about?

REYERSON: The defense requested to view the -- squad 320. And they identified something in the backseat, a pill. And then we facilitated the transportation of that squad back to BCA headquarters and processed it in the crime scene garage.

SCHLEICHER: So the attorneys for the defendants asked to look at the vehicle itself?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: That was done, where, do you recall?

REYERSON: In the secure lot.

SCHLEICHER: Then it was something that they identified that prompted a further processing of that vehicle?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: They drew that to your attention?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Did you make arrangements to have 320 processed again?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: How was that done?

REYERSON: Through McKenzie Anderson.

SCHLEICHER: So it was brought back to the garage?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Were the seals in place?

REYERSON: When I got back to the garage, no.


REYERSON: Because they had been broken at the secure lot.

SCHLEICHER: For what purpose?

REYERSON: For the defense to view.

SCHLEICHER: So they looked at the inside of the squad car?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: And did the crime scene then process that vehicle again?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And were you present for that processing?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Did McKenzie Anderson process that as well? REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: It's your understanding that she will testify later about the processing of both of those vehicles?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: All right.

So as part of the investigation, did you also obtain medical reports for Mr. Floyd?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Did you obtain complete medical records from the facilities where he had been seen?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And which providers did you obtain medical records from?


SCHLEICHER: HCMC is Hennepin County Medical Center?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And those records were made part of the investigation?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Incidentally, Agent Reyerson, have you yourself, in working on the case, have you been in squad 320?


SCHLEICHER: Have you had an occasion to start it?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Do you know what kind of vehicle squad 320 is?

REYERSON: It's a hybrid.

SCHLEICHER: What does that mean to be a hybrid?

REYERSON: The vehicle operates on both a gas, traditional engine, and electronic.

SCHLEICHER: And opportunities where you started it, there were there times when the gas engine would not run?

REYERSON: Yes, sir. The first time we attempted to start it in the crime scene garage. On the first processing, we turn the vehicle on and we didn't hear the gas engine start. So we were initially a little confused. SCHLEICHER: Did you figure out that, in fact, it was on?

REYERSON: We did, yes.

SCHLEICHER: So it was running on the battery rather than the gas engine?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Do you know if squad 320 has a catalytic converter?

REYERSON: Yes, it does.

SCHLEICHER: What is the function of a catalytic converter?

REYERSON: To reduce toxic emissions.

SCHLEICHER: Prior to coming to court, did you have an opportunity to review a video, that I'll refer to it as a composite video?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: That was the putting together of two separate videos into one?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Did you recognize that as a mix of Officer Kane's body worn camera and Darnell Frazier's Facebook video?

REYERSON: Yes, I did, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And while you were watching it, were you able to determine if they were synced up? That means were they running at the same time.

REYERSON: Yes, sir. It appeared to be synced.

SCHLEICHER: Your Honor, we would offer exhibit 127.



CAHILL: And 127 is received.


SCHLEICHER: Agent Reyerson, what I'm going to do is talk about some timing with this video. So I'm going to refer you to portions of it. So we're not going to watch the whole thing, but just specific portions.

I'm going to ask that 127 be published in that way.

If we can first go to 20:19:18.

OK. So the record should reflect that right now we're at 20:19:17. That's good.

Agent Reyerson, at this moment in the -- in exhibit 127, is this the approximate moment where Mr. Floyd is placed prone on the ground?

REYERSON: Yes, it is, sir.

SCHLEICHER: When this happens around this time period -- I'm going to let this run for about 10 seconds, OK?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.






SCHLEICHER: Looking at that 10-second portion, were you able to determine approximately where Mr. Chauvin's left knee is?

REYERSON: Yes, sir. It appears as though it's on the back of Mr. Floyd's neck.

SCHLEICHER: Are you able to tell where Mr. Chauvin's right knee is?

REYERSON: It appears as if it's on Mr. Floyd's back.

SCHLEICHER: Right here at 20:19:28, the hand in the center of the photograph, is that Officer Chauvin's hand?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Wearing a glove?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: In the videos you have reviewed, was he wearing gloves on both hands?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: I'm going to speed up to 20:20:45.

Let the record reflect that is actually stopped at 20:20:44. That's good.

I'm going to let that run for 10 seconds, OK?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.





SCHLEICHER: Now, here at 20:20:55, for the record, we see another video portion within this video, correct?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: The right hand, as you're looking at it, the right side of the screen is NOW Darnella Frazier's video, correct?


SCHLEICHER: This is what we meant earlier when we talked about a composite video?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: Is there a time during the Darnella Frazier video that it becomes apparent Mr. Floyd stops verbalizing or saying words?

REYERSON: Yes. Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And approximately -- if we could, then, go to 20:23:59.

So we're at 23:58.

And I would ask that you play this for about 10 seconds again.



FLOYD: I can't breathe.

DONALD WILLIAMS, WITNESS: Bro, you're being a bum right now. You need to get him off the ground, bro. You need to get him off the ground. You're being a bum right now.


SCHLEICHER: All right. So is this the moment in the encounter between Mr. Floyd and Mr. Chauvin where Mr. Floyd appears to stop making verbal sounds, talking?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Prior to coming to court, did you have an opportunity to look at defense exhibits 1045, 46, 47 and 48?

REYERSON: Yes, sir. SCHLEICHER: I'm going to ask that exhibit 1045 be placed on the

screen, please.

Can you note for the jurors the time stamp in this exhibit?

REYERSON: 20:23:32.

SCHLEICHER: So approximately how long after Mr. Floyd was put on the prone position on the ground did this occur?


SCHLEICHER: Would it help to refresh your recollection to refer to your notes?



REYERSON: He was placed on the ground at 20:19:18. So four minutes.

SCHLEICHER: So more than four minutes?

REYERSON: More than four minutes.

SCHLEICHER: Then going back to exhibit 1047, is there a point in time in Darnella Frazier's video when it appears that Mr. Floyd no longer makes any movements?


REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: I'm going to ask you to go to 20:24:58.


SCHLEICHER: 20:24:58.

And does this -- well, I'll let this run for about 10 seconds, too.

REYERSON: Yes, sir.



WILLIAMS: You're a bum, bro. You're a bum for that. You're a bum for that, bro.



SCHLEICHER: So is this approximately the time when, afterwards, Mr. Floyd does not appear to make any movement? REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: For the record, we stopped at 25:@5:08.

In this photograph, the still portion of the Facebook video, the Darnella Frazier video, does it appear that Mr. Chauvin is using his weight to hold Mr. Floyd down?

REYERSON: Yes, it does.

SCHLEICHER: I'm going to ask you to show you exhibit 1046.

Can you tell the jurors the time tamp from this exhibit?

REYERSON: 20:26:40.

SCHLEICHER: So how long after the time that Mr. Floyd no longer appears to be moving is this photograph taken?

REYERSON: Approximately seven minutes.

SCHLEICHER: I'm sorry. From the previous photograph?

REYERSON: Oh, the previous, I'm sorry.

Approximately three minutes.

SCHLEICHER: OK. So we know that the moment where he stopped moving, we have roughly 20:24:58. Correct?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: So from that time to the time of this photograph is about how long?

REYERSON: From 20:28?

SCHLEICHER: From 20:24:58 to 20:26, roughly, two minutes?

REYERSON: Yes, two minutes.

SCHLEICHER: So exhibit 1046 portrays a time after Mr. Floyd had appeared to have stopped moving?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: Are you able to tell from the Darnella Frazier video when the paramedics arrived?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: I would like to go back to 127, then, and advance to 20:27:20.

Here, the record should reflect we're at 20:27:18. That's close enough. I ask that you play about 10 seconds of that.



WILLIAMS: Grab your mace our something, bro.




SCHLEICHER: Actually, let's just keep rolling for about 10 more seconds, please.





SCHLEICHER: There we saw one of the paramedics walking up, correct?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: So the time stamp here is 20:27:40. Correct?

REYERSON: Correct.

SCHLEICHER: I'm going to toggle back to exhibit 1047.

Do you see the exhibit there?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: And the time stamp on exhibit 1047, do you see that?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Also at exhibit 1048.

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Do you see a time stamp there?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Do those two still photos depict a time after the paramedics arrived?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Based on your work on the case and you review of the videos, is there a moment in exhibit 127 -- you can take that down.

Is there a moment in exhibit 127 where you think you can see better the placement of Officer Chauvin's right knee?


SCHLEICHER: I would ask to go back to 127 at 20:28:43.

All right, 20:28:43.

What I would like to have you do, Agent Reyerson, while we're frozen on this moment, if you take the cursor and illustrate to the jurors where Officer Chauvin's right knee is.


REYERSON: Right there.

Right there.

SCHLEICHER: All right.

And so what I'd like to do then, we'll move that, and have the video played . Go ahead.




SCHLEICHER: OK. We'll just stop the video there.

Were you able to see there when he had his right knee on Mr. Floyd's back?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

SCHLEICHER: Your Honor, to keep things moving, I think I will deal with that previous video at a separate time.

That's all I have. Thank you.

NELSON: May we just have one moment, Your Honor?

CAHILL: Sure. We'll take a moment.

BALDWIN: As they take a moment before the cross-examination, Cedric, let me start with you.

This is a gentleman, lead investigator into the death of George Floyd. What stood out to you there?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you know, we're going to continue to see these types of questioning throughout the course of this interview. But this seasoned police officer, use-of-force specialist, he's very

clear and succinct about what his experiences are and have been, and is able to articulate to a court, in which I stated, you know, that can be convincing.

But what's going to be very challenging about this, Brooke, and I've said this before, is he's going to go back and forth, back and forth between the defense and the prosecution, I suspect.

That's just me talking as a layperson. But I've been in trials like this before during my tenure over the years.

But he's quite convincing. He's very calm and he's very knowledgeable.

But we're going to continue to see strategies get played out here to a course that is going to, in some type of way, going to bring about question -- or some question to that of the -- of Mr. Floyd's death.

BALDWIN: OK. Elie, to you.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Brooke, what we saw was really important. The prosecution was setting the timeline for the key moments in this interaction using video so it's not going to be contestable.

What they just established is that it took about four minutes from when George Floyd was handcuffed behind his back on the street until he goes silent.

And then there's another minute and a half that passes while he's silent, while Chauvin's knee is on his neck, until he's not moving.

And then another three minutes passes until Chauvin gets up and the paramedics arrive.

Those minutes, when he's unresponsive, when he's silent and the knee is on the neck, that is the crux of the prosecution's case that we just saw.

And they established -- you remember yesterday, there was testimony that when the paramedics arrived the knee was on the back. They just established that was after, after the key moments we just talked about.

BALDWIN: So as we wait to see one of the defense attorneys jump up there -- oh, I'm being told they're back.

Let's watch.

NELSON: Good afternoon, Agent Reyerson.

REYERSON: Good afternoon.

NELSON: Thank you for being here.

Sir, you testified you were the primary case agent in this particular case, correct?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And it's fair to say that the BCA's investigation into this case was fairly extensive, correct?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: You would agree that approximately 50 BCA agents were involved in this case in one form or another?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: Those BCA agents were frequently paired up with agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or other law enforcement agencies?

REYERSON: That's correct.

NELSON: Would you agree that roughly 25, 26 FBI agents participated in your investigation?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: Would you agree that, ultimately, all things told you -- the BCA executed approximately a dozen search warrants in this case?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: There was an extensive amount of information that was gathered by the BCA, agreed?


REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: A lot of that information is, ultimately -- it has no bearing on this case, agreed? Meaning, interviews were conducted, for example, of people who didn't see anything.

REYERSON: That did occur. However, I believe that, you know, our investigation was very thorough.

NELSON: Right. And that's what I'm trying to just gather.

It was more than just watching a few minutes of video, piecing a couple of things together, interviewing a couple people, right?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: In fact, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that roughly 200 citizen witnesses were interviewed in this case?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And so when we break down and we look at those citizen witnesses, the purpose of any investigation is to gather as much information as is possible, right?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And to preserve that information for further review to determine at a later point if it does or doesn't become relevant to a criminal investigation, right?


NELSON: So, in terms of, say, the citizen witnesses, the BCA agents interviewed many witnesses who did not observe -- they weren't present, for example, correct?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: People who live in the area, agents went and canvassed the area, knocked on doors, talked to people at local businesses and they said, I wasn't there at the time, I was somewhere else, right?

REYERSON: Correct.

NELSON: BCA agents worked hard to identify people who may have seen some portion of that, correct, of that incident, correct?

REYERSON: Correct.

NELSON: So things that the BCA agents did would include trying to read license plate numbers on cars that were passing by, looking up the registered owners of those cars, and going and interviewing them, correct?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And sometimes people acknowledged being in that area, sometimes they said, we weren't there --

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: -- right?

There were also witnesses that you -- the BCA agents interviewed that provided just sort of background information, right?

REYERSON: Yes, some, sir.

NELSON: For example, the owner of the vehicle that was being driven by Mr. Floyd was not on -- was not present that day, but she was interviewed, correct?

REYERSON: I believe so, yes, sir.

NELSON: OK. And your job as the lead case agent was to sort of quarterback all of this, right?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And as other agents receive information, you take it and you maintain a data file, correct?

REYERSON: Correct.

NELSON: Every time a BCA agent performs some task, the way the BCA works, is a new report is generated for that particular task, agreed?

REYERSON: That's correct.

NELSON: So rather than having one officer write a long narrative police report, they will write several police reports instead, right?

REYERSON: That's correct.

NELSON: To date, over 400 BCA investigative reports have been prepared in this case, agreed?

REYERSON: Yes, specifically 440.

NELSON: So, we're at almost 450. And some of those reports are even being generated now as we speak, correct?

REYERSON: Possibly.

NELSON: Right.

In fact, this -- we just went through this analysis of an exhibit and we compared it to some other exhibits that were already presented. That's something that literally was probably just done today, right?

REYERSON: Possibly, sir.

NELSON: Right.

I mean, you never -- the analysis that you just did here on direct examination, you never wrote a police report about that, right?

REYERSON: No, sir.

NELSON: And that's because those exhibits were just introduced in court, right?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And so -- now, in addition, this investigation took a lot of different twists and turns, would you agree with that?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: In part, because of kind of what was going on in the city at the time?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: Right.

So, for example, certain pieces of equipment belonging to Officer Chauvin or other involved officers were located in other places, right?

REYERSON: That is correct.

NELSON: And those investigations kind of were turned into this investigation and became a part of this investigation, globally speaking?


NELSON: And because of the profile of this case, the BCA maintains like a tips database line, right?

REYERSON: That is correct.

NELSON: And it's fair to say that a number of citizens called in with information or what they perceived to be information?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.

NELSON: And it's the BCA's job to follow up on every single one of those little pieces of information?

REYERSON: Yes, it is.


NELSON: And ultimately, in following up on those little pieces of information, oftentimes, you can see -- I mean, this is irrelevant to this case, it's something else, or this person may just want to share their opinion, right?

REYERSON: Yes, sir.