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Live Coverage as Derek Chauvin Trial Enters Third Day; Genevieve Hansen Testimony Concludes, Christopher Martin is questioned; Cup Foods Surveillance Video Played. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 31, 2021 - 10:30   ET



CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I have seen hostile crowds, believe me, this would not qualify to be a hostile crowd.

One just last comment around the EMT: I hope she doesn't allow the defense to get under her skin today. Juries should not be distracted with that sort of thing, they need to be able to hone in on her testimony because that's what's important, not the back-and-forth. So hopefully she, you know, is taking a deep breath and gets through today.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Laura Coates, do you expect a course correction perhaps from the defense, given the way their interactions with the testimony, not just of the off-duty EMT but also Donald Williams, you know, seemed deliberately, not even accidentally contentious. You and others have said damaging to the defense's position. Do you expect a course correction perhaps?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think a slight one, depending upon what they're actually getting from feedback from the jurors. You and I and all of us cannot see what the jurors' faces are, but in my experience, a defense attorney, a prosecutor, certainly the witnesses are feeding off of the energy they're also receiving from the jurors.

If they're getting some sort of facial cues, some sort of body language that mirrors their own either impatience or their -- gives expressions of derision towards the defense counsel, then I find that witnesses can oftentimes become emboldened to then be even more absolute and resolute in what they're saying and how they're saying it.

And so the fact that you had back-to-back, essentially, we had the minor children who were in the middle of it, but you have these two witnesses -- Donald Williams and the Minneapolis firefighter who's testifying again today -- have a similar demeanor and act (ph) justifiable, frankly, defiance about being mischaracterized in some way or being made to feel that they were being scapegoated. I suspect the jurors are giving off some body language.

And although you -- the actual jurors cannot watch the news and media, you'd better believe the prosecution, the defense attorneys are all watching to see how the court of public opinion is viewing their attitude, viewing what their statements are, viewing their actual strategy here.

And they may course-correct given the fact that you're looking all across the map here and saying, hmm, was the actual squeeze worth the juice? If it's not, if you're not actually getting or scoring points as (ph) defense counsel here, you might course-correct for that reason.

And so far, the idea of scapegoating a crowd when there's no indication that the victim in this crime, George Floyd, was in any way taunting, was in any way aggressive and resisting arrest after the point in time when any reasonable force could have been justifiably used? Well, they're still fighting an uphill battle.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Well, you're experienced in a courtroom, you've seen how these things go and how the lawyers do watch the jurors for their reaction.

We are waiting, just moments from now, the start of the trial, the resumption of testimony from an off-duty EMT who was present there. Her testimony began yesterday, describing her frustration at not being allowed to intervene to help. Perhaps, she believed, help save George Floyd's life. That was an emotional testimony, at times contentious testimony. Her name is Genevieve Hansen.

And there she is, taking the stand right now. Let's listen in.



NELSON: I actually just have one follow-up or final question for you. When you were on the scene on May 25th of 2020, did you show any identification identifying yourself as a Minneapolis firefighter?

HANSEN: No, sir.

NELSON: Thank you very much, I have no further questions.

HANSEN: Thank you, sir.



Good morning.

HANSEN: Good morning.

FRANK: Just as a real quick follow-up to that point, did you have any ID with you at that point in time?

HANSEN: No, sir.

FRANK: You were not on duty?

HANSEN: No, sir. FRANK: You were asked about seeing the fluid running down the street

there, and you thought -- you considered whether it might be bodily fluids from Mr. Floyd, correct?

HANSEN: Correct.

FRANK: If you knew that it wasn't bodily fluid from Mr. Floyd, would it have changed your assessment of his medical needs at that point in time?

HANSEN: No, sir, it's just something I noticed.

FRANK: And your assessment of his medical condition at that time, did you believe he needed immediate medical attention?

HANSEN: Yes, sir.

FRANK: You were asked about whether you could hear the officers talking. Did the officers ever -- let me be more specific. Other than Officer Thao, who you told us you spoke directly to, did the other three officers talk to you at all?


HANSEN: Not that I remember.

FRANK: Did any of the officers tell you, hey, we've got an ambulance coming?

HANSEN: Not that I remember.

FRANK: Did any of the officers tell you, hey, we've got the fire department coming?


FRANK: You were asked a little bit about what you thought would be the typical response time for the fire department, because that's who you work for, correct?

HANSEN: Correct.

FRANK: You were being asked about something you really don't know about in terms of the fire department's response in this case?

HANSEN: Correct.

FRANK: And you don't know anything about who called the ambulance or who called fire for this particular case?

HANSEN: Correct.

FRANK: So the answers that you were giving Mr. Nelson were just sort of typical case?

HANSEN: Correct. FRANK: That's all the questions I have, thank you.

CAHILL: Anything further?

All right, thank you, you may step down.

HANSEN: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we will need a minute here, (INAUDIBLE).


SCIUTTO: Laura Coates, as we await the next witness to be called there, what do you make of the questioning there and Hansen's answer?


SCIUTTO: Tell us, Laura, you were hearing Genevieve Hansen's testimony there, just a quick question from the prosecutor and the defense. What do you make of the line of questioning and her answer?

We're having problems hearing there, let us get that fixed as we await another witness.

Charles Ramsey, you heard the line of questioning to the off-duty EMT, Genevieve Hansen there. Just very quickly, both from the defense and the prosecution, what do you make of the line of questioning there?

RAMSEY: Well, the defense side, I mean, he just asked her one question, which I actually thought it was going to probably go a little longer than that. And of course, the prosecution, just to clear up some of the things that were mentioned yesterday. So it was really quick, I don't think it added much to what's already been heard.

SCIUTTO: I mean, the simplest answer, he -- the prosecution rather asked Genevieve Hansen, do you believe he -- Floyd -- needed immediate medical attention? Answered yes.

As we're seeing the next witness being sworn in, Laura Coates, your reaction to those first questions? Might just have a quick moment to answer here.

COATES: Well, remember, you said, would there be course correction? I think you saw it there, they didn't continue on the same path they did yesterday, trying to get under her skin or try to go forward. They decided to essentially cut the line there and go on to the next person.

I think they've assessed what they can get from her as a witness and as a cross (ph), and so you're going to see them move pretty rapidly if there seems to be repetitive testimony or any redundancy that does not move the needle in their direction.

SCIUTTO: Understood. OK, let's listen to the next witness here as testimony begins. FRANK: Mr. Martin, how old are you?


FRANK: And can you tell the jurors where you live -- you don't have to give us your address ,but just generally where you live.

MARTIN: In Bloomington, Minnesota.

FRANK: OK. And taking you back to May 25th of 2020, last year, where were you living at that time?

MARTIN: I was living above Cup Foods, in the apartments on 38th Street and (ph) Chicago.

FRANK: OK, and how long at that time had you been living there?

MARTIN: About four months.

FRANK: And who did you live there with?

MARTIN: My mom and my sister.

FRANK: So fair to say you were pretty familiar with the area of 38th and Chicago?


FRANK: And on that date, were you in school at the time?


FRANK: OK. Did you go on to do some schooling after that?

MARTIN: No, I usually do school in the morning.

FRANK: OK, what do you mean by that?

MARTIN: So I go to -- I went to my mentor's office, which is downtown Minneapolis, and I would do my school online. And then I would take the bus home.

FRANK: And did you also have a job, were you working at the time?

MARTIN: Yes, I worked at Cup Foods.

FRANK: And was that a full-time, part-time?

MARTIN: It was a full-time job.

FRANK: And so what kind of shifts did you pull there?

MARTIN: I usually worked every day except for Wednesday and Sundays, 3:00 to 8:00 p.m. or close.

[10:40:00] FRANK: And so what kinds of things did you do at Cup Foods?

MARTIN: So I was a cashier, so I would either work in tobacco if someone didn't (ph) come in, or I could help, like if people wanted to buy things from the deli then I would help them with that. Or just like various snacks.

FRANK: And so on May 25th of 2020, how long had you been working at Cup Foods by that day?

MARTIN: Probably about two months.

FRANK: And can you just describe for the jurors, you know, what is Cup Foods, what all can customers get there?

MARTIN: So you can -- there's actually a deli there, so you can order food, you can get wing combos, Italian beef sandwiches, there's groceries there, there's toiletries there. And there's tobacco products there. And also there's phone products there as well. So.

FRANK: And what do you mean by phone products?

MARTIN: So you could actually go, it's a Metro PCS, I think, you can buy a phone, set up a plan and (INAUDIBLE).

FRANK: Do they also -- or does Cup Foods, do they have people that could, like, fix and repair phones and computers?


FRANK: So they did a lot there at Cup Foods. Is that yes?


FRANK: OK. And didn't I promise you I would tell you to --

MARTIN: You did.

FRANK: -- fix that? And so fairly busy store in May of 2020?


FRANK: Get a lot of customers?


FRANK: So the part that sold tobacco, was that separated from the rest of the store somehow?

MARTIN: Yes. So when you first walk in, there's a door, there's a door to your left. If you open that door, that's where you go in and you can get food or snacks or toiletries, as I explained. Or if you go to the right door or kind of just straight in front of you, that's where the tobacco is.

FRANK: So is the tobacco part sectioned off from the rest of the store?

MARTIN: Yes, basically.

FRANK: And so you would work both places, the tobacco area and the regular?


FRANK: Right. And so going to May 25th of 2020, were you working on that day?


FRANK: And you know that's the date that, you know, the incident occurred that brings you to court today, correct?


FRANK: And was your shift 3:00 to 8:00 that day?

MARTIN: Yes, 3:00 to close, yes.

FRANK: So the store closed at 8:00?

MARTIN: Mm-hmm, yes, sorry.

FRANK: That's all right.

And so when you are working -- well, let's look at that day. Generally how many coworkers did you have working with you that day?

MARTIN: About four to five, with at least one manager present.

FRANK: And so let's go to approximately 7:45 p.m. You were working. Did you have a customer who came into the store that you know now is Mr. Floyd?


FRANK: Did you know him before he came into the store?

MARTIN: I did not.

FRANK: Had you ever seen him before in the store?


FRANK: And you know, what was it about him that sort of gave you notice?

MARTIN: Probably just as high (ph) as I could tell (ph). He was big, so I noticed. Other than that, I just saw him as another customer that was coming to the store.

FRANK: So you said it was size?


FRANK: Tall guy?

MARTIN: Mm-hmm, yes.


MARTIN: Sorry about that.

FRANK: Yes, did you actually interact with him in the store?

MARTIN: I did have one conversation with him.

FRANK: OK. And just not what was said, but what was the conversation generally about?

MARTIN: It was about -- I asked him if he played football -- or no, I asked him if he played baseball, and he said he played football.

FRANK: And when you were communicating with him, can you describe for the jurors, you know, generally what his demeanor was like, what was his condition like?

MARTIN: So when I asked him if he played baseball, he went on to respond to that but it kind of took him a little long to get to what he was trying to say, so it would appear that he was high.

FRANK: So you just had some signs that you thought he was under the influence of something?


FRANK: All right. But were you able to carry on at least some conversation with him?


FRANK: And did you eventually sell him something?


FRANK: And that was what?

MARTIN: The cigarettes.

FRANK: OK. And that was sort of later, after he was in the store?

MARTIN: Yes. That was later on.


MARTIN: The conversation that we had, he didn't purchase anything.

FRANK: Right. But later, when he purchased things from you, you were able to understand what he was buying?


FRANK: All right.


When he was in the store -- well, I was going to ask you for how long he was in the store, was it a quick time or was he in there for a little bit?

MARTIN: He was in there for a little bit. I think he came in to make some repairs on his phone, so he might have had to wait in line. And then --

FRANK: OK. And you -- well, let me ask it this way. At Cup Foods, you're aware that there are security cameras inside, correct?


FRANK: And one of those security cameras is in the back of the store, faces towards the front, correct?


FRANK: And that will capture the employees of the counter where the cashiers are, correct?


FRANK: And prior to coming into court, we showed you a video or a couple videos of the time that Mr. Floyd was in the store?


FRANK: And that is -- well, when you saw that, did you recognize that as a fair and accurate representation of the time that he was in the store?


FRANK: OK. I'm going to offer exhibit 29?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No objection, your honor.

CAHILL: Twenty-nine is received.

FRANK: OK. And then, Mr. Martin, we're going to play that for you now. And there is no audio on this, correct? It's just video, is that right?


FRANK: And so we're just going to sit and watch it, and then I'll have some questions after the video shows, OK?

Now, I'm going to pause this just for a moment right here, OK? Well, let's see if it can -- can you click forward just a few more frames, please? Let's just keep going here for a little bit. All right, stop it right there, please, thank you.

Now, a couple things. And just for the record, the timestamp on the video currently is 7:34:57, but Mr. Martin, you don't know if that timestamp is the actual correct time that this was being taken, do you?

MARTIN: I do not.

FRANK: All right. And there will be ways that we can deal with that later, but you're not -- well, I think you've answered my question.

So if you would, in this photograph, describe for the jurors, you know, kind of what we're seeing here in the layout of the store. And one of the things I want to let you know is in front of you, there should be a stylus like this, OK? And if you take it and see how you can draw right on the screen? So if you would, as you're just telling the jurors kind of the layout of the store, maybe just mark the screen when you're talking about the different areas of the store, OK?

MARTIN: OK. So when you enter here, the next door will be right here. This is where -- sorry, this is where tobacco is, so that's kind of how it's closed off. And then if you take a left here, there's a door here. And then these are all the snack, this is where the deli is located, kind of like tucked off here.

Right here is just kind of like my manager's space, usually where they are kind of watching to see who comes in and out. And then back here, you can't see it, but that's usually where most of the people are that can help you with your phone. And then right here in the front is just mainly where I sit all day when I work cashier.

FRANK: All right. And then, I think you can clear the screen in one fell swoop, right? Please, thank you.

And so when we're looking -- I'm going to have you identify this individual here --

MARTIN: George Floyd.

FRANK: OK, that's Mr. Floyd, who you'd had the conversation with?

MARTIN: Correct.

FRANK: All right. And then this individual right in here, who's that?

MARTIN: That's me.

FRANK: All right. And then these other three individuals are coworkers?


FRANK: All right. And so this, is this the area -- you know, when you're cashiering, that you work?

MARTIN: Yes. FRANK: All right. Except when it's tobacco and that's over back here?


FRANK: All right. OK, then we can let it run.



Now I'm going to pause right here for another moment, please. Now you see there's an individual sitting here?


FRANK: You don't have to give us his name, but is he a coworker as well?


FRANK: All right. And so it looks like even, just in this frame, at least four coworkers, correct?


FRANK: Now would there be a manager on duty at this time as well?


FRANK: And where would the manager be?

MARTIN: He would be tucked (ph) off here in the corner of the store. So it's just like right in the corner, usually behind his computer, working, and then when people needed help he would pop out, help.

FRANK: OK, all right, then let's continue, thank you.

I want to stop right here for a moment, please. Mr. Martin, do you see where you are? And just for the record, we stopped at 7:37:28. Do you see where you are in the store right now?


FRANK: And what's that location?

MARTIN: The tobacco section of the store.

FRANK: So that's where you go to sell cigarettes to people?


FRANK: And other tobacco products, I suppose?


FRANK: All right. And then we can continue, please. And while we're watching this, Mr. Martin, can you tell us, it looks

like windows on the far wall, correct?


FRANK: And what street is outside of those windows?

MARTIN: Thirty-eighth --

FRANK: Is that actually Chicago out there?

MARTIN: Oh, Chicago, sorry. Were you talking about the ones in front?

FRANK: Right, the one where the bus is right now.

MARTIN: Yes, that's 38th, sorry about that.

FRANK: Well is that actually Chicago out in front of the store?

MARTIN: Yes, sorry, Chicago.



I'm going to stop you here, if we could, please? And for the record, this is at 7:39:09. You see an individual who has just walked into the frame, correct? This individual here?


FRANK: And again, you don't have to give us his name, but who is that?

MARTIN: That is the manager.

FRANK: OK, so he has come out from the manager area of the store?


FRANK: All right. We can continue then, please.

Now if we could pause here for a moment, please? And again, for the record, this is 7:39:28. We see that Mr. Floyd has sort of walked off the screen, correct?


FRANK: And so what area of the store is that, where he has walked to?

MARTIN: The cell phone area.

FRANK: All right. And then if we can continue?

And, Mr. Martin, then at some point does Mr. Floyd make his way to the tobacco counter to make a purchase with you? MARTIN: Yes.


FRANK: All right, so we'll see that coming up here in a minute or two.