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Derek Chauvin Trial Begins. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 29, 2021 - 15:00   ET



ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: At the time this was happening, back on May 25, she says something along the lines of, "I don't mean to be a snitch."


HONIG: And I think that's helpful to the prosecution, because it shows that she is reluctant. There's a natural reluctance in any police culture -- she's not a police officer, but she's a dispatcher -- to tell on one another.

And that's why we saw the prosecutors feature that theme in their opening. The police even told on the police. That's pretty rare. And that tells you something.

BALDWIN: the quote was she said to her supervisor: "You can call me a snitch if you want to."

Elie, hang with me.

Let me bring in former police commissioner Charles Ramsey too.

And, just, Commissioner, as you're listening to all of this, and the notion that, as the prosecutor Jerry Blackwell said, it's like the -- she's calling the police on the police. What do you make of her testimony?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's still early in her testimony, but I agree that, right now, they're just trying to chip away at what the prosecution did.

But, clearly, she saw something that she recognized as not being standard. And she did the right thing by contacting a supervisor and making them aware of what it is she was observing.


They have -- the cross has resumed. Let's listen back in.

Thanks, guys.

ERIC NELSON, ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: The arrival time of EMS is 8:28 and 36 seconds.

Am I reading that correct?

So, 8:28 and 36 seconds, EMS arrives, correct?


NELSON: All right.

And then EMS didn't stay on scene, right?


NELSON: They left. And they indicated they went to 36th and Park, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And they didn't go to 36th and Park, did they?

SCURRY: EMS? That's -- that's where I believe they were.


So, to your belief, they went to 36th and Park, because that's what they called out, correct?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Do you recall fire having trouble finding EMS at 36th and Park?


NELSON: Because they didn't go to 36th and Park. They went to 36th and Chicago, correct? Or do you not know?

SCURRY: I don't -- I don't -- I actually don't know. That's -- after those comments, I did not know that's where they went.


So, ultimately, there was some confusion between fire and EMS about where EMS actually was. And you heard that radio chatter?

SCURRY: I heard -- I asked the questions on my (INAUDIBLE) which is reflected in there, and then relayed the information that I had of 36th and Park, which was also added into the call. Other than that, I didn't know their locations.


Now, ultimately, you said you were watching this video, and you were still -- I mean, you were still watching the rest of your work, right?

SCURRY: Correct. I was actively still working. NELSON: So, you look up for a couple seconds, look down, do your

work, look up, look down, from time to time throughout the course of this incident?

SCURRY: You're correct.

NELSON: All right.

And so it's fair to say that your attention wasn't necessarily focused directly on the cameras and what you were seeing?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And you -- but it was concerning enough to you, what you did see, that you called Sergeant Pflueger (ph) Minneapolis Police Department 3rd Precinct, right?

SCURRY: I was concerned, yes, because the time of -- the length of the incident had not changed.


So, you called. And we listened to your video or the audio of your call with Sergeant Pflueger. And you called Sergeant Pflueger at 8:30 and 44 seconds?

SCURRY: Is that the time of the call?

NELSON: Correct, 20:30:44.

SCURRY: Yes. And that's the first time we spoke.

NELSON: So, the first time you spoke was at 8:30 and 44 seconds. And, in fact, during that phone call, you were -- you must have looked back at the camera and saw that they were all gone at that point, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Because you're like -- you said something to the effect of, oh, wait, they're all gone, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And your time that you had called into the Met link was at 8:31 and 12 seconds. Does that sound right to you?

SCURRY: For the Metcom (ph) hail?

NELSON: Right.

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Then, ultimately, Squad 330 indicated that they were going out to check on the status, and it says A.P., of the A.P. That's something Squad 330 typed into the system?


SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And that was at 8:55:08, right?

SCURRY: Mm-hmm.

NELSON: Now, again, you were concerned because of the length of the time that you saw this incident unfolding, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And I think you said that, at one point, you thought maybe the camera had even frozen, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Because it seemed to be kind of prolonged, right?

You can't hear anything on that video, could you?


NELSON: You had no idea what officers were talking about amongst each other or what they were talking about with others who were present, correct?

SCURRY: You are correct.

NELSON: And, again, you, not being a Minneapolis police officer, are not familiar with the use of force requirements, correct?

SCURRY: You are correct.

NELSON: All right.

But you are aware that, when uses of force are made or used, sometimes, you will hear dispatch, the officer call for a sergeant because they need someone to review a use of force, right?

SCURRY: Right.

NELSON: And you -- at the time you called Officer Pflueger or Sergeant Pflueger, you hadn't received any sort of a dispatch from Squad 320, Squad 330 or Squad 830, hey, we need a sergeant to review the use of force?

SCURRY: You are correct.

NELSON: Now, every single time the Minneapolis Police Department uses force, do they go through the dispatch process?

SCURRY: Of using the radio?

NELSON: Well, to get to the sergeant to report the use of force.

SCURRY: As far as I know.

NELSON: OK. So, you don't know whether someone called up Sergeant Pflueger on his cell phone and said, hey, we need you down here?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And so because at 8:30, when you called Sergeant Pflueger, you had not yet heard that dispatch, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And, sometimes, when a use of force incident occurs, that call may be to the sergeant to review the use of force, maybe fairly quick, and sometimes it may take a few minutes, right? .

SCURRY: That's true.

NELSON: And it just depends on the circumstances of the situation, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: All right.

Now, you indicated there were these TVs. There are more cameras within the city of Minneapolis than six or nine TVs' worth, right?


NELSON: Are the televisions, like, are they split-screen, where you can see five or six cameras at one time, or are they -- is it one big TV with one big camera.

SCURRY: It is split-screens, and then can you go into different camera views.


Just looking back through my notes.

When you watched the video here in court, you said that it was similar to the video that you had watched previously, right?


NELSON: Would you agree with me that the video that we just watched in court seemed to be moving very slowly, in terms of kind of choppy?




NELSON: Right.

So, an incident that you watched, you watched it in real time, subject to a few seconds of delay for the signal to get through, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: So, I'm going to see if it makes a difference if we look at it on my computer.

If we could -- this is Exhibit 11. I should be plugged in. Can we put it up? Should be there.



NELSON: It's day one, Your Honor.


All right. Now, when you watch this same video, it seems to be moving a little faster time?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Because these cameras actually transmit real-time occurrences.

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And you said that you first kind of took notice, based on your evidence, at 8:17. So, I'm going to just skip forward a little.

This is 8:17 and 38 seconds. Back up here a little. So this is 8:17 and about 30 seconds. And this is when you first sort of took notice of these cameras on the squad car, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Or at the call center.

Now, in terms of the pacing of this, is this more consistent with real time?


NELSON: And one of the things you ultimately told Agent Peterson (ph) was how you noticed how the squad car was rocking back and forth during the struggle?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: If you could just watch that and tell me when you see that happening.

SCURRY: Well, it's currently shaking, and now currently shaking.

NELSON: And by rocking back and forth, the car is actually going forward a little, backwards, and it's happening over and over and over again, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And it's happening pretty much consistently during the course of the interaction of the officers, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And that that back door is opening and closing on the officers, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Now, the other things you notice, when you look at this intersection, this is a pretty busy intersection, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Lots of cars coming by, lots of people wandering about. This was May 25, a pretty nice spring day in the middle of -- or not long after being cooped up inside here.

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: So, now, ultimately you observed and you saw these officers using force, right, or what you believed to be force.

SCURRY: What, taking him out of the squad?

NELSON: Right, or putting him in the squad.


NELSON: And there -- what you observed was a struggle between officers and the person they were arresting, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And that the struggle ultimately resulted in that squad shaking back and forth.

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And when you ultimately called Sergeant Pflueger, you said, "I don't know if this is a use of force or not," right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And Sergeant Pflueger told you that it could just be a takedown?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: And a takedown wouldn't require a supervisor.

SCURRY: Correct. NELSON: Ultimately, you know that Sergeant Pflueger responded to the

scene, right?

And that's -- is that -- yes?

SCURRY: Yes. I'm sorry.

NELSON: That's OK.

And that's confirmed in the computer-aided dispatch or the incident detail report, right?

SCURRY: Correct.

NELSON: Your Honor, I have no further questions at this time.

Mr. Frank, any redirect?


Ms. Scurry, just a few follow-up questions.

I'm going to put 151 back up on the screen for you, because I think, in the questioning, counsel had asked you Metlink (ph), I think, was the phrase he used.

I just want to clarify that, two points. So, if we could put -- and I want to just clarify the times as well.


So, if we go down to the time of 21:31:12, and if we could just expand that out so we can see it a little better, please.

I think counsel had asked you about this 21:31:12, and that being the Metcom call. Having looked at this, what time was your Metcom call?

SCURRY: So, the information I added was at 20:33 for the Metcom. That is our resource that we use, radio to radio, in the metro, so we can be quick and be able to get information back and forth.

FRANK: So, at 20:33:02, what is the purpose of that entry right there? What are you reflecting?

SCURRY: I'm asking, basically, what is the reason why fire was added? I got on there and asked what do you need fire for? Because there were no additional comments of saying why they needed Code 3.

FRANK: And so what you have typed in there via Metcom is -- and you sent out--

SCURRY: Mm-hmm.


SCURRY: Yes. FRANK: Is to tell what?

SCURRY: The information I got via Metcom was that EMS would like the fire department for patient condition at the requested location of Park and 36th.

FRANK: So, that's the answer you got, is that fire want -- that EMS wanted them to go there?

SCURRY: Correct.

FRANK: All right.

And so that was information you received before 20:33:02, but you sent out at that time?

SCURRY: Correct. There's the time of me typing it and putting in there.

FRANK: When you have referred to your work duties that day -- you can take it down, thank you -- as Channel 1, how does that signify you from other dispatchers?

SCURRY: We have two other channels. There's Channel 2, which is in charge of the North Side. And then there's Channel 3, who has downtown and the Fifth Precinct. And then we have a relief dispatcher who's there to help us when we need to take our breaks or we need to get up for any given reason.

FRANK: So, when you're dispatch over Channel 1, does that go citywide or just precinct-wide?

SCURRY: Just on those two precincts. I have my own dedicated channel.

FRANK: Having been questioned by opposing counsel about your call, as you sit here today, have you changed your mind about the reasons why you called Sergeant Pflueger when you did?


FRANK: You were asked about the number of screens that you have up, looking at all this, and still being able to see what was going on, on this call from the city camera. That's been your work setup for about seven years, correct?

SCURRY: Correct.

FRANK: Something you do on a daily basis is keep track of all these moving parts?


FRANK: And that video that's up there, when it's not sending out work messages, can put up these city cameras, correct?

SCURRY: Correct. FRANK: But you don't control that?

SCURRY: Correct.

FRANK: Do you know who or what office controls that?

SCURRY: It can change. Sometimes, the supervisors at our center can pull up cameras. Like I said, sometimes, we put them on there just to see what the weather is, especially if we have inclement weather. If there's storms coming through, we can see actually how severe they are when people are calling in.

Sometimes, they put them up for incidences, if we can see anything. And those cameras can be taken away from us to the fact that the base, which is the precinct desk, has control over them and can move them to wherever they need to when they need to.

FRANK: So, what you're saying is those cameras, where they're pointed and when they're available to you, can be controlled by members of the police department?

SCURRY: Correct.

FRANK: And in your six years, by this date, seven years now, it's rare -- it's a rare incident for somebody to put that incident, to put an incident up on the screen like that?

SCURRY: Correct.


FRANK: I have nothing further, Your Honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, thank you, Ms. Scurry. You can step down.

SCURRY: Thank you, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state may call its next witness.

STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTOR: Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, the state calls Alisha Oyler.


Raise your right hand?

Do you swear or affirm, under penalty of perjury, the testimony you're about to give will be the truth and nothing but the truth?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Have a seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to make sure we can hear you, we're going to have you take your mask off. I'm going to leave mine on.

But, before you begin, and so we can test out the microphone, could you give us your full name, spelling each of your names.

OYLER: Like my whole name?


OYLER: Alisha Mariee Oyler. A-L-I-S-H-A, M-A-R-I-E-E, O-Y-L-E-R.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I think we're going to have pull up just a little closer to the microphone. Perfect. Thank you.

Mr. Schleicher.

SCHLEICHER: Thank you very much, Your Honor.

Ms. Oyler, the key I'm going to give you is that, when you speak, you should be able to hear your own voice over the speakers, all right? So just lean close enough to the microphone to be able to do that. All right?

So, first, I'm going to ask you a few questions, so we can get to know you a little better.

How old are you?

OYLER: Twenty-three.

SCHLEICHER: Twenty-three. And are you originally from Minnesota?


SCHLEICHER: Where did you grow up?

OYLER: No. I'm from Arizona.


OYLER: I'm sorry. This -- I don't like this.


OYLER: OK. Can you -- I'm good? All right.

SCHLEICHER: Thank you. Thank you.

You can even pretend you're yelling at me, if you want to, or make your voice hit the back of the room, all right?


SCHLEICHER: So, you said that you grew up in Arizona; is that right?


SCHLEICHER: What part of Arizona?

OYLER: Just Arizona. SCHLEICHER: The whole state?



When did you make your way over to Minnesota?

OYLER: I don't know. A while ago.

SCHLEICHER: Were you still in high school?


SCHLEICHER: All right.

Did you attend any schools when you moved to Minnesota?


SCHLEICHER: Where did you go to school?

OYLER: Red Wing.

SCHLEICHER: In Red Wing, Minnesota? Where else did you go?

OYLER: St. Paul.

SCHLEICHER: St. Paul, OK. What's the last grade you completed through high school?

OYLER: Eleventh.

SCHLEICHER: OK. Can you tell the jury the different cities or towns that you have lived in since coming to Minnesota?

OYLER: I guess Minneapolis.

SCHLEICHER: Minneapolis, and I assume Red Wing, for one.

OYLER: Yes, St. Paul.


Are you currently employed?


SCHLEICHER: Can you tell the jury a little bit about the types of jobs that you have held?

OYLER: I used to work at Speedway.

SCHLEICHER: And which Speedway? Do you recall the location?

OYLER: Thirty-eighth and Chicago. SCHLEICHER: All right.

What did you do at Speedway at 38th and Chicago?

OYLER: I'm a shift lead.

SCHLEICHER: Shift lead, what does that mean?

OYLER: Like a -- not like a regular employee, but not a manager, like kind of in the middle.

SCHLEICHER: OK. So, not a lot of us have had experience working as a shift lead at Speedway, so I would like you to tell the jury a little bit about what is your day-to-day job like when you're doing that job.

OYLER: I work at a cash register. I do paperwork. If a customer has an issue, I handle the issues.

SCHLEICHER: OK. You also work as a cashier?

OYLER: Mm-hmm.

SCHLEICHER: Do you have to train other people or supervise other cashiers?

OYLER: Sometimes.

SCHLEICHER: How long did you have that job, Ms. Oyler?

OYLER: About a year.


SCHLEICHER: Did you start as shift lead?


SCHLEICHER: Or did you have other positions? You started as a shift lead?

Can you tell me, tell the jury a little bit about the types of hours you would work there. It was a full-time job?

OYLER: Yes. I worked 40 hours a week. Well, I did.





When did you typically start your shift?

OYLER: Between 2:00 or 3:00 to closing, 10:00. SCHLEICHER: Then o'clock was closing?


SCHLEICHER: Was it a pretty busy store?

OYLER: It has its moments.


Well, I'd like to see if you recognize the area. First, I'd like to show just the witness what's been marked for identification as Exhibit 1.


BALDWIN: Started the prosecution with Alisha Oyler.

Elie Honig, we still don't know quite yet what her role in all of this is.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brooke, it sounds like she's going to be one of the bystanders eyewitnesses.

So, I think what we're going to hear from witnesses like this, and others is sort of a little more dimension than we see from just those videos. What was it like to actually be inside the store, to come out to the sidewalk and to see what was happening with your own eyes?

I think that's what we're going to hear from this witness and others.

BALDWIN: OK, let's listen back in.

SCHLEICHER: And then I'm going to show you exhibit one, if you can take a look at the screen, just the one in front of you.


SCHLEICHER: All right.

Do you recognize what's shown in exhibit one?


SCHLEICHER: Do you see the Speedway where you used to work?





SCHLEICHER: All right.

So, do you have something that looks like this in front of you, a little stylus?

All right, what I would like you to do is just take this and see if you can draw a circle around the Speedway where you used to work.

Thank you. Right.

And the name of the store directly across the street, were you familiar with that?

OYLER: Mm-hmm. Yes.



SCHLEICHER: What is the name of that store?

OYLER: Cup Foods.

SCHLEICHER: You ever go in that store? Were you a customer there?

OYLER: Not really.

SCHLEICHER: Not really? Just a place across the street from where you worked?


SCHLEICHER: And then do you see what's directly across the street, if you cross 38th Street from Cup Foods?


SCHLEICHER: Do you recognize that building?

OYLER: Yes. I didn't know that's what it was, though.

SCHLEICHER: What did you know it as?

OYLER: I never really paid attention to it.


Well, do you recall whether or not you were working on May 25, 2020, Memorial Day?


SCHLEICHER: And where were you working?

OYLER: At Speedway.

SCHLEICHER: At Speedway, right. And do you recall when you began your shift?

OYLER: About 3:00. SCHLEICHER: And do you recall specifically what you were doing at the

Speedway that day?

OYLER: Ringing up customers.

SCHLEICHER: And at the cash register?


SCHLEICHER: Can you just, again, using your stylus, point or take a -- maybe put a little X around the area in front of the store where the cash register would be.

OYLER: Like right here.

SCHLEICHER: OK. Are you able to see the outside, across the street from the cash register?

OYLER: Mm-hmm, yes.


And you said you began working at 3:00. I'd like to draw your attention to a little after 8:00 in the evening that day. Do you recall something that caught your attention outside of the Speedway?


SCHLEICHER: Can you tell the jury what caught your attention?

OYLER: The police. Like, in that area, it's always police.